New member, with cr*p Cav- I need your help!

[FatherTed]

Hi all,
I'm new to the board (but was registered previous to the '93 facelift!) and have a dilemma with a Cavalier I have.

The problem is, I'm not entirely sure whether to repair (and save) the car, or call it a day.

A bit about me, I live in Kent and have two other VXs at the moment, both Astras-



A GSi that is low mileage and only comes out in the summer..



..and a diesel that works hard all year round!!

I had Cavaliers back when they were current, the best being a lovely CDX saloon in 'rioja' - a deep purple colour. Wish I still had that one..

Anywaaaaayyy, on to the one I have now..

Enter, a very miserable, bottom of the pile 1600cc Envoy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



This old shed has fallen on hard times. A friend bought it as a salvage vehicle. It had been hit in the front and sat for three years until I acquired it.

It needs plenty of work to live again, which I can do but I'm not sure if it's worth it

Good points-
* it's a Cavalier!
* it's not rusty. In fact it's remarkably rust-free.
* no sunroof to leak
* 115k (ish)
* runs/ drives
* interior clean
* has cost me nothing yet..

Bad points-
* Envoy spec
* C16NZ2 lump
* small block hubs, F13 box etc
* still needs pulling a bit at the front
* paint is awful in places
* general air of misery



The car was a Cat C write-off after a bump in the front. The previous owner pulled it straight at their body shop but it still needs tweeking- the slam panel is too far over to the right as is the lower valence panel. I can do this with the portapower at work but it's a bit of a faff and will be a day of messing around.
I have a bumper in the right colour but still need a n/s head lamp, indicator and various other bits! When it's done, it'll still be a poor man's Cav and I find the C16NZ pretty 'middle of the road'. I do like the colour though !

So vauxcav.com... what would YOU do?

[iangsi]

A rust free cavalier always worth saving ripe for an engine swop if the 1.6 is not to your liking.

[James McGrath]

Hello there, Father!

Welcome to the forum.

The C16NZ2 is a great little engine in my opinion. It's not very fast no, but it's very willing, revs like a charm, is very smooth and sounds good too. The F13 gearbox is perfectly suited to it in my opinion; the gears are very close together and the flywheel is pretty light too so it gives it a sporty feel even though you're not going very fast.
It's a fun little setup really.

If it's not for you then my advice would be get it roadworthy again and simply sell it on and buy another.
Modifying it wouldn't be cost effective compared to just buying a higher spec car and there are far too few of them left on the road to simply scrap it.

[colin1]

Small block hubs??
Paint is awful in places - or the lacquer?

We could tell you what we want to do with it but it won't/can't answer the question of what you want to do with it.

I would have a good think about what you would want the car to be if you finished it, work out a budget for it and see if it appeals. It doesn't have to cost that much to turn an entry-level cav into an SRi with some intelligent and patient parts sourcing.

I had the 16SV with the F13, not fast but as James points out, lovely close box and it felt sporty; ditched the Pierburg 2E3 and installed a Weber 32DMTL, the first Cavalier Mk III with a manual choke - I wish I still had it.

[FatherTed]

Thankyou all
Lots to think about. My biggest problem is, I can't bare to put a healthy dog down.. but my sensible head says it's not financially worth it, not that that really matters.
I would probably keep it standard. I live in a remote part with awful roads and a nice softly sprung Cav with 70 profile tyres would suit me fine on the work commute!

[James McGrath]

Thankyou all
Lots to think about. My biggest problem is, I can't bare to put a healthy dog down.. but my sensible head says it's not financially worth it, not that that really matters.
I would probably keep it standard. I live in a remote part with awful roads and a nice softly sprung Cav with 70 profile tyres would suit me fine on the work commute!

It will serve you well as a daily driver. My LS saloon with the same engine averages about 40mpg and has done 199,000 miles with no major problems.

[belmont_dazz]

Thankyou all
Lots to think about. My biggest problem is, I can't bare to put a healthy dog down.. but my sensible head says it's not financially worth it, not that that really matters.
I would probably keep it standard. I live in a remote part with awful roads and a nice softly sprung Cav with 70 profile tyres would suit me fine on the work commute!

Life's not financially worth it but you only live once! Do the bits, keep her and enjoy cavalier motoring. Way I see it is prices aren't going down they're slowly going up especially for rust free ones.

[FatherTed]

Sounds good.
I've started buying some bits and straight away, noticed that there is massive confusion surrounding the 1600cc engines. Mine is an NZ2, which as I understand it, is basically a C18NZ with a shorter stroke?
I have access to EPC and the old Trade Club books (remember them..?!) and it's clear enough there but almost all other suppliers get mighty confused
In particular, the timing belts are almost always listed incorrectly, as are the dizzy cap and rotor- which are the three bits I'm currently needing
I'm having to physically remove the old bits first, count teeth etc and compare pictures.

It doesn't help that the markings on the engine seem to contradict themselves too!



Sticker on block says C16NZ Z1015094
Whereas stamp in block face is C16NZ25015094, which matches the log book.

[James McGrath]

I've started buying some bits and straight away, noticed that there is massive confusion surrounding the 1600cc engines.

Yep, welcome to 1.6 Cav ownership.

If you ever take it to a garage to be fixed you'll find it normally takes them a couple of tries to get the right part.
Watch out with the tyre pressures too. The C16NZ (small block) has lower pressures than the C16NZ2 (big block).

If you ever need any help finding parts, give me a shout.

[Robsey]

You will be surprised how pokey a 1600 can be on a Cav.

I used to have a mk2 with a 1300 S engine.
Blimey it was very willing and reliable.

It had the 2E3 pierburg carb with the armstrong manual choke conversion.
It was mated to an F10/4 box and never seemed to reach a speed where it felt gutless.

Point behind my comment - Just because it is "only" a 1600 does not make it a bad investment.

The NZ2 makes it a family 2 engine with single point injection.
On the whole family 2 engines are quite tough engines when combined with reasonable levels of servicing and maintenance.

The weak spot on any Cav is the shell rotting. If yours is rot free, then that automatically makes it a keeper to me.

[FatherTed]

Thanks for the great welcome everyone, I think I'll start a thread in the projects/ restorations section

[colin1]

...The C16NZ (small block) has lower pressures than the C16NZ2 (big block)...

I had no idea a 1600 would or could come under 'big block'

So what are 'small block hubs' then?

[James McGrath]

I had no idea a 1600 would or could come under 'big block'

Well in the Cavalier world there are only 3 petrol engine sizes, the small block, the big block and the v6.

It's not the size of the cylinder capacity, it's the size of the engine itself. The C16NZ2's block is the same physical size as the C18NZ, C20NE, 20SEH, 20XE and even the C20LET. So it is called the 'Big Block' to avoid confusion with the physically smaller 16SV (Carb) and C16NZ (Injection) 1.6 engines.

I intend to write up an extensive 'Tech Spec' article on engines in our Archive section at some point.

[colin1]

I had no idea a 1600 would or could come under 'big block'

Well in the Cavalier world there are only 3 engine sizes, the small block, the big block and the v6.

It's not the size of the cylinder capacity, it's the size of the engine itself. The C16NZ2's block is the same physical size as the C18NZ, C20NE, 20SEH, 20XE and even the C20LET. So it is called the 'Big Block' to avoid confusion with the physically smaller 16SV (Carb) and C16NZ (Injection) 1.6 engines.

I intend to write up an extensive 'Tech Spec' article on engines in our Archive section at some point.

Thanks James
I'm familiar with the borders for what starts where (or I thought I was); small block was up to 1600, big block started at 1800 regardless of the physical dimensions of the engine. So does same physical size translate to same physical weight? The C20XE being a weighty beast...

Still, if you can bolt a big-block gearbox to it, it's big-block

[belmont_dazz]

I'm pretty sure a big block gearbox will bolt to a small block engine but a small block gbox won't bolt to a big block engine. To gain big block status the 16nz2 is the same width (cambeltside to gbox side) as the 1.8 and 2.0s and the 16nz is the same width as the 1.4, 1.3 and 1.2 making that small block (smaller engine diameter, flywheel and driveshafts)
big block is what it says on the tin, a bigger block.