1.6i Envoy saying hello

[Ontical]

So I guess it’s about the car here not me...

Bought her a year ago, 1995 Envoy and replaced the dying gearbox F13 with an F15. Got her through MOT and serviced this year, but head gasket was diagnosed as on the way out.

Spent around £200 on parts to save her and she’s going to make it - should be good for another 50,000 miles apparently.

That being said, I am interested in getting her a new engine as the head gasket fix is more of a patch up than a repair given she’s done 114,000 miles and might only get to 164,000 until the engine has had it.

I tried to auction her off to the Nova pocket rocket peeps, but just couldn’t do it so I fixed her up.

I need some advice on either engine transplants or reconditioning. So thought i’d start here.

[Robsey]

Hello Ontical,

Welcome to our friendly little forum for like-minded money-pit owners.
(Your name looks familiar.. ).

So you have the late C18NZ2 or the less common X16SZ engines.

If you are looking for a more Ooomphy engine.
(Speaking from the view-point of a Nova racer type).
The choices are as follows: -
In order of BHP and smiles gain...

1 - C18NZ for just a little gain in bhp. (approx 89bhp). If driven harshly, will have same engine gasket issues. (At least in my experience with my original engine).

2 - C20NE is a good solid 8 valve engine, which so far for me has been mechanically very sturdy giving a nice 112 bhp. I did feel the difference that the extra 23 ponies give.

3 - X20XEV - the lesser fancied but very competent 16 valve eco-tec engine. (136 bhp).
As long as you ensure that the cam speed sensor is okay, they are very reliable.
(Most should have had the Vectra-B sensor and adapter loom fitted by now).

4 - C20XE - The Nova racer's favourite thrasher engine.
Again 16 valve, but with upto 150 bhp in standard set-up.
They tend to be thrashed within an inch of their lives by Nova types.

Economy in "driving Miss Daisy" mode is as good as any of the 8 valve units.
However heavy use of the "noise" pedal gives a lot of smiles at reduced mpg.

I am reliably informed by the track-day types that the best set up is with a F16 gearbox with wide ratio 5th gear.

All the engines mentioned would need a gearbox change to: -
In order of popularity -
F18,
F20,
F16C (for fast starts at the lights).
and F16W. (For better motorway usage).

And then you are talking everything else.-
Exhaust manifolds, looms, possible suspension and brake upgrades.
The list goes on.

If you want reliable, with modest gains, I would have to be biased and say go into the middle and get a C20NE with either an F16 or F20 gearbox.

The F18 has no easy access panel for changing the clutch assembly without dropping the gearbox.

I run a C20NE with F18, and I am happy with every aspect of it -
(How I did mine -)
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=6685

the only weak spot being the emissions at MOT.
You need to have a decent type approved catalytic converter fitted if the emissions are going to be acceptable.

Although I am sure that the cat quality really affects all post 1992 injection cars.

Sorry for the long blurb,
I am old and ramble a lot...hope that helps with your plans.

Rob

[Robsey]

Beyond that, you could go X25XEV, V6 engine, and six speed box.

Or fit a C20LET from a Calibra.

I think in all cases, apart from C18NZ above, you would seriously need to consider the viability of upgrading your current car, or buying a car with a bigger engine already fitted.

As said above - C20NE and above should have bigger hubs, discs, sub-frame, suspension legs, gearbox, probably drive-shafts, exhaust - everything outside of the cabin.

I am going to sound slightly contradictory.

When I upgraded from C18NZ to C20NE,
I only changed the engine with all it's sensors, ECU loom, air-intake assembly including air-box, air flow meter, throttle body and inlet manifold along with a different lambda probe.

A lot of C18NZ and C16NZ2 engine parts are almost the same, so you may just get away with doing what I did...
But I would still "change-up" the gearbox.

I am not sure that the F15 would be quite up to the job, or even fit at all.

[iangsi]

Hello & Welcome Good luck with whatever option you decide on.

[Ontical]

Very informative responses here. Thank you.

I used to have a C20NE in my LX I think. It really was a good, reliable engine and I was gutted after writing off the car but the Cav spell was cast and now I have one again I treasure it. Haha I’m so stupid lol. I’ve spent £700 fixing this Cav and £350 last year for the gearbox and paid £600 for the car!

I’ve seen lots of the C20NE about so I think I’ll go for that.

Advice on VXR conversion? I like to dream and if it’s possible I will throw money at it.

[Ontical]

Also, gearbox upgrade goes without saying however I think F18 or F20 would be natural competitors.

[Robsey]

Not sure what you mean by a VXR conversion.

Do you mean the Astra Z20LET installation.?
It might be easier going the C20LET route, unless you are in this for the challenge.

There is another member on here going down that route.
If using a standard set-up, and not the 4x4 turbo route, then it should be less messy to cram it all in.

The transfer box made it very snug for TurboDan to fit a air few years ago.
Sadly, he did not give any wiring info, so more a Work In Progress and not a How 2.

That said, It is not impossible to get Astra Z-LET wiring diagrams for you if you need them.


Referring back to the gearbox choices. All the boxes are feasible options, I just put them in order of popularity.
F18 being least popular due to the lack of access panel, but most common as the bread-and-butter facelift (1992 onwards) model was the 1.8 C18NZ LSi with F18 manual box and heavy pot flywheel.

The F16 close ratio box, but fitted with the wide ratio fifth gear makes the best all rounder due to gear ratios and so on.
(Depending How in depth you wish to go.)