E10 petrol suitability

[vexorg]

I've seen E10 petrol coming up on a few other car forums on older cars.
I cant see if there's any issue with older vauxhalls, the gov site only says the Z22YH engine is not safe for it, I doubt they'll go back far enough for the old cars.

Has anyone got any links for old vauxhall engines?

[Robsey]

You are best to look at equivalent models in America or Germany.

I have been reading that the effect is on the rubber based gaskets, carburettor diaphragms and fuel hoses on older vehicles.

No particular running issues due to timing, ease of combustion or damage to valve guides etc.
No worse than normal unleaded.

I am on one of the VW forum for old campervans, and the countries mentioned above have been running 80's onwards campervans on E10 for years with no issues other than fuel hose changes every few years.

I understand that some brands of super unleaded will remain E5... so worth shopping around.

The Vauxhall website echos the goverment statement.
Only the Z22YH engines are affected
ALL other Vauxhalls are said to be okay / safe to use E10
I am sure that Vauxhall are aware of the older models.

I noticed that the only VWs affected are the 1st generation FSi engine range between 2001 and 2006.
A similar era to the Z22YH vauxhall engine.

[vexorg]

I think you have too much faith in vauxhall, not convinced many dealers now would even know the cavalier or calibra were vauxhall.

[James McGrath]

I think E10 has been slightly overhyped.
We do already have 5% ethanol in our fuel so an increase to 10% isn't likely to completely change the game when it come to looking after old cars.

I think it will just be a matter of being a bit more mindful of keeping fuel lines in good order and not leaving petrol sitting in fuel tanks for extended periods of time.

I'm not sure of the effects on carb engined Cavaliers, but fuel injected ones should be fine.
In the grand scheme of things Mk3 cavaliers are quite modern. It's not like they have iron heads with weak valve guides.

I think it's worth mentioning that the Cavalier was sold in Brazil as the Chevrolet Vectra during a time when pure ethanol was commonplace.
They even marketed the C20NE in that region as a 'Flex-power' engine that could run either petrol or pure ethanol.

To be honest though, it's probably just going to be a case of waiting to see what happens.
We don't really know what's going to happen but I'm sure we will find solutions to any problems that might arise in time.

[chrisp]

Esso claim on their website that their Supreme 99 octane petrol is ethanol free - but then qualify this in the small print by adding "except, due to technical supply reasons, in Devon, Cornwall, North Wales, North England and Scotland". The pumps for it are all marked E5 but the website says this is for legal reasons only.
Not all that helpful!

[Robsey]

By "North England", is that anywhere north of Watford?

Normally, if you are outside of the M25, then you may as well be on another planet.

Oops!! - I am off on one of my cynical trips.

To be honest, i haven't used Esso for years. In my local area, they used to be very cost effective.
(2 star and 4 star).
After the supermarkets started to sell fuel and the withrawal of 4 star leaded fuel, Esso became even more expensive than Shell, Texaco and BP.
From my distant memories... back in the early 90s, all the big companies were quite competitively priced.

Back on topic.
As long as you replace your fuel lines for 7.3mm bore R9 ethanol resistant hose, you should be fine.
Expect to pay between £15 and £22 per metre.

If you have a carburettor car. I suggest getting a repair kit with the rubber seals and diaphragms in it.

Brickwerks (VW specialist) do a repair kit for the Pierburg 2e3 carb.
(I am making an assumption - but do not guarantee that all 2e3's should be virtually the same - A Pierburg product with minor tweaks fitted by some manufacturers.)

https://www.brickwerks.co.uk/t3-parts/e ... g-2e3.html

you can get the choke pull-down unit.

https://www.brickwerks.co.uk/t3-parts/e ... ative.html

Also check which diaphragm you have... aparently early carbs had shorter stems.

https://www.brickwerks.co.uk/t3-parts/e ... short.html

Chances are, you 'should' have the later version.
But I would measure your original unit first.

I use Brickwerks a lot and they are reasonably priced for basic parts... their fuel hose is expensive though.

And they usually deliver within 3 days.

(No I am not on commission, but I believe in telling others if a potential supplier is available).

[vexorg]

I wonder if the injector o-rings will be ok. Not sure what type of material they use.

(the view of "the north" always makes be laugh when I I have to drive 4 hours south to get to manchester!)

[iangsi]

By "North England", is that anywhere north of Watford?

Normally, if you are outside of the M25, then you may as well be on another planet.

Oops!! - I am off on one of my cynical trips

The definition of North for me is the wrong side of the river Thames

[vexorg]

The definition of North for me is the wrong side of the river Thames

There's a right side?

[Robsey]

I wonder if the injector o-rings will be ok. Not sure what type of material they use.

(the view of "the north" always makes be laugh when I have to drive 4 hours south to get to manchester!)

As mentioned by James, these cars have been used successfully in countries already using E10.
So I would like to be optomistic.

I also note the term -
when I have to drive 4 hours south to get to manchester!
I totally understand that nobody in their right mind would "want" to come to Manchester by choice.
It definitely helps to have a few slates loose to live anywhere within 30 miles of the place.

[vexorg]

Manchester was always a work thing for me, although, far more pleasant than birmingham

[cavalier1990]

Doesn't E5 or E10 mean up to 5 or 10% content, so in reality it's probably 3% and 7%, not really that much of a difference. Echo what's already been said to not let fuel lie for a long time in tank, as was always the advice with unleaded anyway. I still would rather E5 though even though it says all VXs are ok for it.

I think the biggest issue if any, will be old rubber fuel pipes. I updated the fule pipes on my cavy to plastic, the metal ones were shot, avoided using rubber for obvious reasons so should be ok fuel pipe wise anyway.

[vexorg]

Dont you still need rubber sections to joint the pipes?

[bigsilver]

Will we still be able to put e10 in my c20xe

[James McGrath]

Will we still be able to put e10 in my c20xe

I've merged your thread with this one as I think it's mostly been covered here already.

Basically, it will run and you can use it but we will have to wait and see if there are any side effects that emerge.

At the moment, the best you can do is keep an eye on your rubber fuel lines and don't leave e10 petrol sitting in your tank for extended periods of time.

[ilovedmymantas]

I know It's an older post but it's quite informative
https://f2mcltd.blogspot.com/2014/02/gu ... fuels.html

[Mk3alan]

I have an E10 stabiliser which is supposed to prevent/reduce it's water absorption which will help with tank corrosion.
I did however fill up with super today just to see if there would be any change in running, the nozzle was one that would trigger at the slightest splashback and I did get some on the paintwork under the filler. Grabbed a tissue from my pocket to wipe it away and found it 'dragged' as it had softened the laquer!?
Had to have a session with G3 compound (fine) followed by wax but it's still visible. Hopefully another session will improve things.
So guys, don't splash 'Super' on your paintwork!

Alan

[James McGrath]

Just watched this and thought it summed it all up very well:


Link

[ilovedmymantas]

Excellent video.

So much information in a short time and well explained

My basic understanding is that E5 is rotting hoses at a slower rate than E10, either way it's a matter of when to replace, not if and genuine parts won't work for as long anymore?

Best avoided if you have a carb?
Seems so. those parts are going to be harder to replace, source them now before they vanish

The vauxhall site recommends E5...

https://www.vauxhall.co.uk/help-centre/ ... -fuel.html