Intermittent Engine Failiure

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T1BBST3R
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Intermittent Engine Failiure

Post by T1BBST3R »

Hi folks,
on my ecotec cavvy, sometimes when I start a journey I get between 2-5 miles down the road and the engine, just for a few seconds, cuts out and I lose all engine power, maybe 2 or 3 times in a row but only for a few seconds. After the engine cuts in and not out again, for the rest of the journey there is no problem what so ever.
I changed the distributor, this wasn't the problem and am going to try to swap out some relays purely to see if that makes the problem go away but haven't got a clue really.

Before it goes to a garage for a diagnostic, does anybody know or have any ideas on how to fix the situation.

The car is off down Somerset later for a holiday but wants fixing up by the end of next week really as will be taking me off to work and back by then hopefully.

Thanks in advance and will be checking back soon. :mrgreen:
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Re: Intermittent Engine Failiure

Post by tonyo »

Check the alt is charging the battery properly.. I had a similar issue in the GTE.. It would cut, violently, on WOT.. Turned out that the connector on the alternator was badly corroded internally where the wire connects..

Although the system was charging, it wasn't charging properly and every now and again the output would dip enough to cut the ecu.
1992 Cav 2.0 8v Diplomat - RIP
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Robsey
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Re: Intermittent Engine Failiure

Post by Robsey »

The obvious comments are, checking the wiring and connectors for all relevant items.

I had a car years ago, that ran without the alternator connected at all...
(** mutters 'Austin Maestro' very quietly**)
Until the battery went flat of course.

So things to look at are: -
1 - Battery terminals (loose, dirty or damaged cables) and even battery condition.
2 - Fuel pump relay. And replace fuse 11 regardless of the condition of the fuse currently fitted.
3 - Earth tags for the engine loom and the earth straps in the engine bay.
4 - If you lost power to anything else at the same time unrelated to the engine, I would consider a dodgy ignition switch.
5 - not too common could be a fuel pump on it's way out or crap in the fuel line.
Especially if you have run the tank very low.

The fact it is intermittent infers a loose or damaged cable or connector.
T1BBST3R
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Re: Intermittent Engine Failiure

Post by T1BBST3R »

Cheers guys,
the ignition coil plug wiring is bent quite obtusely above the connector, which has nice shiny connections, when I get back after the weekend I shall try to see if I can replace a section of the wiring there, the alternator should be o.k as the headlights are nice and bright even at low revs but again I am away from any tools ect. right now so shall go for the more obvious and easy things first when back, moving down the list and then see if it's fixed.
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Robsey
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Re: Intermittent Engine Failiure

Post by Robsey »

Hmm an obtusely bent wire..
Looks like the number one item to investigate first.

Sounds like a good plan of action.
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Re: Intermittent Engine Failiure

Post by T1BBST3R »

Happened for a good few seconds earlier and also noticed that the rev counter dropped to 0 while doing 50mph with the clutch out...... Does that mean it's a problem with the ignition? Don't think I have the skills to sort that out so would probably be going to a garage at some point and soon as it's clearly getting worse. I was hoping all I had to do was just those ignition wires and a fuse. Damn.

Funny, I only bought the car recently and thought it was sold to me cheap.
Steven715
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Re: Intermittent Engine Failiure

Post by Steven715 »

I would like to suggest it possibly may be the crank sensor, these engines needs the crank signal to run but they can't just run off the cam sensor like some cars can. Just my thoughts.
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T1BBST3R
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Re: Intermittent Engine Failiure

Post by T1BBST3R »

The guy I bought it from said he changed the cam sensor which at the time I thought was a bit weird as, he also put in a new thermostat. Had the cam sensor go on my green cavvy and it still ran with just the eml on.
While searching through the forum posts I found a guy which said his c18nz died in a way similar to mine which turned out to be an ignition switch, found them for sale on ebay for a tenner and they just plug in & out it appears, luckily.

Those Germans hey and their famously engineered shoddy parts..........
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Robsey
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Re: Intermittent Engine Failiure

Post by Robsey »

T1BBST3R wrote:Cheers guys,
the ignition coil plug wiring is bent quite obtusely above the connector, which has nice shiny connections, when I get back after the weekend I shall try to see if I can replace a section of the wiring there.
-
-
-
Happened for a good few seconds earlier and also noticed that the rev counter dropped to 0 while doing 50mph with the clutch out..
Nope sounds like a problem with the coil connector or something in that area.
The rev counter gets it's signal via a green wire from the coil to the Engine ECU and then to a small connector in the driver's kick panel before going to the instrument panel.

Try repairing that coil wiring first, before getting into the expensive habit of repairing by replacing various parts.

I had best explain... there is something amiss with the output on the ignition low tension circuit.
This circuit has two parts that run in parallel.
One circuit gives the ignition trigger pulses,
The other circuit gives the tachometer output.

Dependent upon ignition system, the circuits may both be controlled by the ECU, or run independently of each other.
But either way, an interruption in the ignition low tension circuit within the coil wiring loom will cause a misfire at best or,
at worst a longer period where the plugs will not fire at all.
T1BBST3R
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Re: Intermittent Engine Failiure

Post by T1BBST3R »

Me again,
it's not fixed yet, was waiting to see if the rain sets the fault off but it seems to be that if the engine starts from hot then the cutting out gets worse (rain has no effect). Also, don't know if it's related but the air con & blowers didn't work today on a run until I turned the car off and on again. Strange or what???

Am thinking of getting it in to a garage for a £75 diagnostic.......
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Cavalier342
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Re: Intermittent Engine Failiure

Post by Cavalier342 »

Don't know if this helps but my old c18nz used to cut out very randomly but not often, after replacing the ignition switch the problem disappeared. It happened sometimes if I "blipped" the throttle, tapping the gas pedal very lightly, and letting go, it would hesitate and once every now and then cut out. If I tried to re-start it, nothing happened, like the battery had been disconnected. After a short while everything came back to life. Never managed to work out why it did that but as I said after replacing the ignition switch, that never happened again.
Previous:
China Blue 1989 Vauxhall Cavalier L 18SV
Kings Blue 1992 Vauxhall Cavalier LSi Auto C18NZ
Smoke Grey 1994 Vauxhall Cavalier V6 C25XE

Am I a light sleeper or a heavy sleeper? Well that depends on how much I've had to drink...
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ilovedmymantas
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Re: Intermittent Engine Failiure

Post by ilovedmymantas »

I'd try the paperclip test first to see if any fault codes have been stored in memory before paying for diagnostics.
Might help?
" It's not rust. It's age-related patina " ;)

1980 vauxhall cavalier MK1 1.6L, 1982 opel manta berlinetta 1.8s, 1985 opel manta 2.0 gte, 1990 cavalier 2.0 gl ,1994 cavalier sri x20xev

-1995 cdx x20xev

---------------
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Robsey
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Re: Intermittent Engine Failiure

Post by Robsey »

Agreed about the paper clip test.
If a fault is logged, the engine light should be illuminated.

If the engine light is not illuminated for 4 seconds or more after starting the car, then neither the paperclip test nor a proper diagnostic test will show anything.

If the engine illuminates for 4 seconds or so, then a historic fault has been stored.
If the light stays on, then the fault is still present.

Sadly many faults do not show a fault code, such as a vacuum or induction air leak or faulty ignition components.

I would be tempted to question whether the timing belt is one or two teeth out.

Run through a standard service check list, ensuring that everything is clean and securely attached as well as free from cracked or split air or vacuum pipes.
T1BBST3R
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Re: Intermittent Engine Failiure

Post by T1BBST3R »

Thanks for the replies,
No eml light, will try a last attempt at a fix before going to a garage by getting a new switch I think, unless you need any expensive tools? Checked all the wiring it seems o.k apart from a split in the plastic sheathing in the engine bay which will get taped over now it's dry. Umm, could probably do with an oil change, it says to every 4k in the handbook, the air filters pretty new.

Its going to get sorted one way or another I just hope it's not going to be expensive.... Update soon.
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Cavalier342
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Re: Intermittent Engine Failiure

Post by Cavalier342 »

Ignition switch doesn't need any expensive tools to replace, you need to remove the steering column cowling, just a few screws, and it's held on by a couple of clips that you have to prise apart to get it off the barrel. From memory, that should be it, as I've swapped one before.

Andrei.
Previous:
China Blue 1989 Vauxhall Cavalier L 18SV
Kings Blue 1992 Vauxhall Cavalier LSi Auto C18NZ
Smoke Grey 1994 Vauxhall Cavalier V6 C25XE

Am I a light sleeper or a heavy sleeper? Well that depends on how much I've had to drink...
T1BBST3R
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Re: Intermittent Engine Failiure

Post by T1BBST3R »

Cavalier342 wrote:Ignition switch doesn't need any expensive tools to replace, you need to remove the steering column cowling, just a few screws, and it's held on by a couple of clips that you have to prise apart to get it off the barrel. From memory, that should be it, as I've swapped one before.

Andrei.

Had a go, can manage to get to 1 screw at the front inner-side of the barrel here:
ImageIgnition side a by terry_tibbs2012, on Flickr

but at the back of the barrel it looks like theres a drift pin:
Imageignition side b by terry_tibbs2012, on Flickr
How do I get this off as there is literally no room to whack it out. The picture was taken from the drivers footwell and the dash is in the way. Also, that's the ignition relay in the top photo there too isn't it? that looks like a real pain to get off also if that needs replacing......
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ilovedmymantas
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Re: Intermittent Engine Failiure

Post by ilovedmymantas »

I seem to remember it being an identical small grub screw, more recessed and harder to 'start' because of the poor access.
" It's not rust. It's age-related patina " ;)

1980 vauxhall cavalier MK1 1.6L, 1982 opel manta berlinetta 1.8s, 1985 opel manta 2.0 gte, 1990 cavalier 2.0 gl ,1994 cavalier sri x20xev

-1995 cdx x20xev

---------------
Matt
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Cavalier342
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Re: Intermittent Engine Failiure

Post by Cavalier342 »

Ah I must have forgotten about any screws or pins, it's been years since I've replaced the ignition switch, I don't know if the fitment varies from model to model, but mine wasn't too difficult to remove. Lack of space to work with is always the issue with these things.
Previous:
China Blue 1989 Vauxhall Cavalier L 18SV
Kings Blue 1992 Vauxhall Cavalier LSi Auto C18NZ
Smoke Grey 1994 Vauxhall Cavalier V6 C25XE

Am I a light sleeper or a heavy sleeper? Well that depends on how much I've had to drink...
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ilovedmymantas
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Re: Intermittent Engine Failiure

Post by ilovedmymantas »

Been years for me too - I hope it's not too far back!
" It's not rust. It's age-related patina " ;)

1980 vauxhall cavalier MK1 1.6L, 1982 opel manta berlinetta 1.8s, 1985 opel manta 2.0 gte, 1990 cavalier 2.0 gl ,1994 cavalier sri x20xev

-1995 cdx x20xev

---------------
Matt
T1BBST3R
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Re: Intermittent Engine Failiure

Post by T1BBST3R »

Well it came off after a good wiggle, it was a drift pin. After an inspection, the switch seems to work mechanically by twisting a a copper connector which bridges different wires in the ignition circuit together. The connections are pushed up really tight to eachother, while there is some signs of wear on the touching parts, the connections are still shiny so I don't think this is the problem.

As it's got an immobilizer I'm now thinking it could be something to do with that as that's a bit dodgy sometimes too, especially if you do a short journey and try to turn the engine on & off again (I have to lock & unlock the car for the immobilizer to turn off).

Tried all the obvious things, will have to live with it for the time being and send the car into a garage to get checked out when I'm on holiday in August.

Damn!
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Re: Intermittent Engine Failiure

Post by T1BBST3R »

Solved! There were 2 things, firstly the cam sensor wasn't wired properly giving me intermittent engine cut outs and a relay in the drivers kick panel that does fuel pump, starter and ignition (shows how the immobilizer works which 'immobilizes fuel pump, starter & ignition') was on the blink.
Took it to a vauxhalls garage and the guy said after doing a diagnostic and noticing the sensor wasn't wired properly he also had a hunch the relay wanted changing too as was a common problem apparently and they shouldn't get hot with the engine running.....
He also said he looks after 3 cavaliers, 1 of which is a 1.8gls on 220k, original engine with still the factory fitted exhaust. Amazing.
Still, not overly impressed, the thermostat also wanted doing and it looks like he took it out, fiddled with it a bit and put it back in again which would explain why it only lasted a day before sticking open so it's gone back in again.
Don't have a bill yet either.........
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