V6 immobiliser/ignition problem

[Lowrider Dave]

I had used the V6 only a few days previously, so expected no problems this morning. Unlocked car with key, inserted key into ignition, turned and waited for lights to go out, then pressed the button on the keyfob to disable immobiliser, the EML light came on and I turn key - the starter motor turned and turned the engine but nothing fired, I dabbed the gas incase it was fuelstarvation but that didn’t help.

I stopped trying and checked engine bay for coil connections and anything obvious, but couldn’t see anything. I tried turning the engine again, but it still didn’t fire. I got out and locked car with key, then unlocked car with key and when I turned the key in the ignition the EML light was already on and stayed on, and when I tried to start nothing happened at all.

I disconnected the battery and after reconnecting it, the same issue continued. After several locking/iunlocking attempts I have managed to get it back tot he stage were it will turn over but not fire!

Just what the hell is going on?! Anyone got any ideas what could be wrong or what to do? Battery and ignition components are fairly new, so I doubt it’s that. The immobiliser was the cause of me being stranded at the petrol station on Vauxhall Beaulieu day this year too - can I get rid of it?!

[Cavalier342]

There is a way of disabling the immobilizer, Mike had it done on his motor with advice from Gaz ages ago.
Is the battery in your keyfob gone glat?

[Lowrider Dave]

Nah, I replaced that after the Beaulieu incident just in case.

[Lowrider Dave]

Still cannot start the car.

[humbucker]

Have you checked the battery in your keyfob? My V6 behaved in a similar fashion until I swapped the keyfob battery (it was flat!).

Failing that, have you tried activating the car with the spare keyfob? There should be at least two with each immobiliser. Also, worth wiggling the ECU to see if any cables are loose.

Can you hear the fuel pump relay kicking in when the ECU light illuminates?

[Lowrider Dave]

New battery in key fob.

Spare keyfob is duff. Does not work with battery, circuitry looks dry - probably suffered from water invasion ir dropped.

Something clicks when I activated the fob button but I don't think it is the fuel relay as the sound seemed to come from behind the dashboard, I did take the relays out and cleaned contacts and put them back in. I ordered a new fuel relay anyway just to see.

As it won't turn over I can't do a paperclip test, I did wonder if a tech2 would help, not that anyone local has one!

I'm baffled and once again revist the idea of selling it as is, I'm getting to old to be arseing around with electronics that I don't understand!

[humbucker]

I had another similar experience with turbo #1. Ecu wiring was loose. The engine would turn over but wouldn't fire up. Try giving the ecu a tap.

You could just remove the immobiliser. Robsey can probably verify, but I'm sure the system on your car comprises two wires: one that sits behind the dash and plumbs into fuel system wiring, the other shoots up the steering column to ignition. Remove, reconnect, hey presto! No more troublesome immobiliser!

[Lowrider Dave]

When I check and reseated all the relays I made sure the ECU (that's in the driver's isn't it?) was seated alright - my engine isn't even turning now. I discovered a box with kiekert on but IIRC that's just door locking.

Would be interesting to know if I can circumnavigate the immobiliser.

[Cavalier342]

You don't need to run the engine to do the paperclip diagnosis, if that's what you mean? Just the ignition.

[humbucker]

You don't need to run the engine to do the paperclip diagnosis, if that's what you mean? Just the ignition.

Close, but no cigar! You need the ECU to wake up, which the immobiliser prevents. Ignition alone is not enough.

[humbucker]

When I check and reseated all the relays I made sure the ECU (that's in the driver's isn't it?) was seated alright - my engine isn't even turning now. I discovered a box with kiekert on but IIRC that's just door locking.

Would be interesting to know if I can circumnavigate the immobiliser.

The KIEKERT box is your car's central locking brain. The ECU is located in the kick panel next to it. I gave mine a tap with my foot to wake it up when it refused to start. That did it. I even had the AA out at one point trying to diagnose the problem. I stumbled upon the classic 'punch the TV to restore the picture' method, haha!

If the engine isn't even turning, then the chances are that the (car) battery is flat. The ECU being asleep won't stop turnover.

[humbucker]

This might sound stupid, but look for signs of a li'l critter under your bonnet. Perhaps a cheeky rodent has chewed on some wiring while you were away.

[Lowrider Dave]

All good ideas Dan.

Car battery shows 12.8v and I used it to go to work on last Wednesday and went to move it on Sunday, so I don't believe it could be the battery. I checked the ECU when I was checking the fuel relay and it looked okay - although never tried the 'swift kick' method!

I'm not sure where the immobiliser module is, some said it's higher up near the Driver air vent. Naturally, I'm working away from home until Friday, so I can't have another fiddle until saturday, so all ideas are welcomed!

[planetc]

The remote fob type immobiliser on the 94 models works on the ignition side by cutting the ignition feed to the ecu. If it's armed (or not disarmed) the eml doesn't light. It is relatively straightforward to remove, you just need to trace the black wires back and remake the spliced joints, but from what you have written above I'm not convinced that it's the source of the problem. Flash codes should be obtainable if you have an eml, bear in mind that 31 will be present until cranked at each cycle of the system. Once cranked it should be clear, if it's not then it would be an indication of a crank sensor fault.

[Lowrider Dave]

Thanks for your input. I'll retry the paperclip test but I've already done it once and the EML didn't flash at all, I'll try again and double check I used the right pins in the plug!

[Lowrider Dave]

It lives!

Dan and Ben (Migweb) turned up for a spot of mincing on the V6. The immobiliser was located and removed, opened an inspected and look 100%, after several head scratching moments and multi-meter tests it fired into life after testing the fuel pump feed - not that it should of fired up but it did...and it continued to restart every time we tried, so it now runs, although we still don't have a definitive reason why it wouldn't start in the first place.
Big thanks to Dan and his methodical approach to things and Ben for lending a hand when needed, but mostly for standing about and bantering.

Ah well, it live to fight another day, although those days could be numbered if I can find a Coupe or a 2.0 Astra Turbo like Dan's!

[humbucker]

]...those days could be numbered if I can find a Coupe or a 2.0 Astra Turbo like Dan's!

Astra Coupe Turbos are tenny a penny these days, and represent exceptional bang for your buck. A good time to buy before prices start rising.

Glad to hear the Cavalier is up and running. Strange that it sprang to life after some fuel pump feed fettling. Anything loose/corroded down there?

[Lowrider Dave]

No, clean as, probably never been looked at in it's life. The curious thing was, Dan took the plug off to see if it was getting current, we turned the engine over and - as he took the reading - it started! Logically it shouldn't because there was no wiring at the pump end! Anyway, reconnected it and tried again and it started fine. Put it all back together restarting here and there just to make sure and it's running fine again. Weird. Ghost in the machine.

Ideally, I'd like to get a 2.0T SRi 5d with exterior pack and IDS plus package - leather and AFL xenon headlamps. That last part maybe the tricky part. Oh, and I don't want a solid boring colour like red or white...not that I actually know what other colours it came in!