OBD1 Diagnostics set up

[cavalier1990]

Hi
I've been reading all over the net looking for answers to if it is possible to hook up a diagnostics and CPU reader to the cavy. The info I have so far is that I need an ODB1 ten pin cable and some soft of software to read it. Most of the info is US stuff so I don't know what if any software is available for the older vauxhall. I'm not just looking to read codes as can do with paperclip test.

I have read there is a tool that will work with cavy here, wonder if anyone has tried it and what it shows?

http://www.opel-scanner.com/index.php?pid=1

I'm looking for this type of info that reads sensors etc. and displays on a laptop if possible. Obviously there won't be such a wide range on the older vauxhalls as the newer obd2 cars but want to see what is possible. The image below shows a similar set up from a US set using obd1.



Thanks

Cav1990

[humbucker]

The dealer-issue diagnostic machine is a Vetronix Tech 1. The first Tech 1's made use of a special cartridge with an inegrated serial port (RS232 if memory serves) that enabled the host Tech 1 to connect to a display terminal. The later (better) version of the machine, the Tech 1A, had the serial port built into its shell so that it didn't need the special cartridge to connect to a computer. I'm not sure what the computer software / user interface on the external machine was, although it's worth bearing in mind that the Tech 1 was first introduced in the early-to-mid 1980s and predates any half-decent version of Windows.

That said, most of the information in your supplied image is available to view and edit on the Tech 1 handset display, albeit not at the same time (due to the limitations of the screen type and size).

[humbucker]

Tech 1 is likely the most comprehensive diagnostic machine/reader for our cars, primarily as it reads ALL Mk3 Cavalier electronic systems (from fuel computers to 4x4 ECUs to chassis control systems) and will allow the manipulation of everything from injector pulse to digital display readouts. It also allows you to save snapshots of your car's settings and reload them in the event that they need to be reapplied.

[humbucker]

Hmmn. Taken from the user manual:

"The RS232 terminal mode is initially set to use a VT-100 (WSYE 60) terminal. To display all data list parameters or to select specific parameters to display, the Tech 1A must be in the Data List or Snapshot mode of operation."

So it looks as though you'll need a VT-100 emulator (http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/msk315.html) and an RS232-to-USB port to link the Tech 1 to a laptop. Interesting...

[iangsi]

Try this guy he knows his stuff, he may be able to help.
http://www.abs-zero.com/

[sribobby]

I bought a lead from ebay with 16 pin on one side and ten on the other to fit the cav. Works a treat with snap on scanner but never tried with anything else

[cavalier1990]

I bought a lead from ebay with 16 pin on one side and ten on the other to fit the cav. Works a treat with snap on scanner but never tried with anything else

does snap on scanner read fault codes only?

[sribobby]

Everything. Engine, abs, airbag. What else do you need it to do? Think it reads live data as well as in lambda sensor etc.

[cavalier1990]

I've been reading some guys have been using an obd2 > obd1 connector cable and using it with various engine performance and diagnostic apps for android etc. I've ordered a 16 pin > 10 pin cable from eBay and going to try it with the torque app.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... e&hl=en_GB

Forum: http://torque-bhp.com/forums/

A guy in work has one and showed me it in operation. Quite fascinating.

Will report if it works or not.

[humbucker]

I look forward to reading about your findings. If it works, this will be a mega useful bit of kit for many club members.

[colin1]

Tech 1 is likely the most comprehensive diagnostic machine/reader for our cars, primarily as it reads ALL Mk3 Cavalier electronic systems (from fuel computers to 4x4 ECUs to chassis control systems) and will allow the manipulation of everything from injector pulse to digital display readouts. It also allows you to save snapshots of your car's settings and reload them in the event that they need to be reapplied.

[ Image ]

How much would something like that retail for?

[humbucker]

Tech 1 is likely the most comprehensive diagnostic machine/reader for our cars, primarily as it reads ALL Mk3 Cavalier electronic systems (from fuel computers to 4x4 ECUs to chassis control systems) and will allow the manipulation of everything from injector pulse to digital display readouts. It also allows you to save snapshots of your car's settings and reload them in the event that they need to be reapplied.

[ Image ]

How much would something like that retail for?

They stopped making them many years ago. I have two. Prices vary, but you're looking at between £200 and £450 for a Tech 1(a) depending on the number of cartridges and cables that are supplied with the unit. I was lucky - I paid £75 for one, £150 for the other. The more expensive of the two came complete with every Opel and Vauxhall cartridge known to man (with the exception of the Lotus Carlton cartridge which goes for £400 on its own), many of which sell for as much as I paid for the whole package! I also have an OBDII convertor cable to use Tech 1 to work with Omegas.

Not that I need it - I also bought a genuine dealer-spec Tech 2. That cost me £750, but came with TIS, genuine CAN module and masses of cables, latest Vauxhall firmware etc. I also bought a Saab card for it. The price might sound high, but when you consider the cost of asking your dealer to plug his Tech unit in at £60+VAT an hour only to read codes, it soon pays for itself. Besides, genuine Tech 2 units retail at £3000, so mine represents incredibly good value. Or so I keep telling myself...

[humbucker]

One of my Tech 1As

[colin1]

...The price might sound high, but when you consider the cost of asking your dealer to plug his Tech unit in at £60+VAT an hour only to read codes, it soon pays for itself...

No it doesn't - because you're right

[humbucker]

My Tech 2

[humbucker]

...The price might sound high, but when you consider the cost of asking your dealer to plug his Tech unit in at £60+VAT an hour only to read codes, it soon pays for itself...

No it doesn't - because you're right

There is also a lot to be said for plugging in a Tech unit and instantly diagnosing a problem instead of wasting hours and hours chasing one, (spending and) replacing parts in the hope of eliminating a running issue through a process of trial and error etc.

And then there's all the programming of keys, ECU(s), infotainment systems, transmission, engine and chassis systems, actuator tests etc. that you can carry out...

Not forgetting those Vauxhalls (hello Z22SEs!) that don't allow for pedal tricks or paper clip tests...

[colin1]

There is also a lot to be said for plugging in a Tech unit and instantly diagnosing a problem instead of wasting hours and hours chasing one, (spending and) replacing parts in the hope of eliminating a running issue through a process of trial and error etc...

Amen to that
I can still remember the first time I actually used diagnostics to fault-find - it was a beautiful moment, car mechanics without the a*sing around

Compare and contrast to climbing all over the engine bay with a screwdriver/spanner in one hand and a multimeter in the other - no contest esp as you start getting older

[humbucker]

Oh, and I forgot to mention the age-old 'air bag light' reset! Haha! And the programming of trip computers from one car to another (four-pot to V6?!).

I've got a genuine Vectra A digidash that reads in its factory-prescribed kmh. I should be able to rejig that to mph with my Tech 1A. Oh, the freedom...! It's a brave new world of computers out there, mwahahaha!

[cavalier1990]

I look forward to reading about your findings. If it works, this will be a mega useful bit of kit for many club members.

Crossing my fingers. I read some guys were setting it up had a bit of trouble but eventually got it. Sometimes it was actual pins on plug needed moved other times was the profile settings in the app if using converter cable etc. Thing is I have not been able to confirm if cavy is OBD1 or ALDL, I think if it is OBD1 there is a chance it will work, but ALDL apparently no chance. From what I gather OBD1 and 2 are much the same protocol but the pins/plugs were standardised from about 1998 onwards, hence OBD2. OBD2 was implemented earlier in US due to emission standards. If opel/vx cav was sold in US we'd of been laughing as I think OBD2 was from 93 on or thereabouts. But ALDL is different protocol from OBD hence the up a creek without a paddle outlook if it is ALDL.

[humbucker]

If opel/vx cav was sold in US we'd of been laughing as I think OBD2 was from 93 on or thereabouts...

You were saying?

[humbucker]

Omega B was OBDII, sold from '94 onwards. A special Tech 1 cartridge and an OBDII connector cable was introduced just for the first generation Omega B, although it doesn't work with facelift Omegas (99 onwards, often mistakenly referenced as Omega C).

[colin1]

...Thing is I have not been able to confirm if cavy is OBD1 or ALDL, I think if it is OBD1 there is a chance it will work, but ALDL apparently no chance. From what I gather OBD1 and 2 are much the same protocol but the pins/plugs were standardised from about 1998 onwards, hence OBD2. OBD2 was implemented earlier in US due to emission standards. If opel/vx cav was sold in US we'd of been laughing as I think OBD2 was from 93 on or thereabouts. But ALDL is different protocol from OBD hence the up a creek without a paddle outlook if it is ALDL.

I'm not sure what you're trying to find out
The Cavalier III was OBD (not sure what OBD1 is) but so was the Peugeot 205, the VW Golf GTi (of the period) and the Ford Escort. OBD wasn't a single standard, it was largely proprietary at that stage of on-board diagnostics and everyone had their own (incompatible with other manufacturers) diagnostic tool - Vauxhall's being called Tech1.

OBD II is a US standard for on-board diagnostics and EOBD (European On-Board Diagnostics) is the European equivalent. OBD II, unlike OBD is a global standard (insofar as it is global in the US). EOBD and OBD II tools will only work on petrol cars from 2001 and diesel cars from 2003.

I'm equally unsure what you're trying to say about ALDL (which I've never heard of) but to say that it's 'a different protocol from OBD' is a bit ironic; if it's different to OBD it's the same thing as saying that it's different to all the standards that come under the OBD umbrella and they are of course, all different to each other - which makes it the same wrt to a definition of the OBD standard?

We might as well mention EOBD 2 while we're all contemplating our navels.
EOBD 2 is not the latest version of EOBD, it even stands for something different ie Enhanced On Board Diagnostics, Second Generation. There is no such thing as an 'EOBD 2 car', EOBD 2 features are simply very manufacturer-specific and get, ironically enough, given what they were trying to get away from with OBD, to a point where a certain set will only be available for a certain manufacturer.

To be fair, it's feature-incompatibility rather than the software-incompatibility of the various proprietary OBDs.

[Robsey]

Cavalier Mk3 is ALDL.
Assembly Line Data Link, if I remember correctly.
It is a 10 pin connector in the UK,
12 pin in the US. And 14 pins in Australia.

OBD1 or EOBD1 arrived in 1996 / 7 and used purely kwp diagnostic protocols.
It uses the 16 pin connector.

EOBD 2 was rolled out circa 2000 and took into account of CAN (controller area networking ) a required protocol in 2001 for petrol cars, and 2004 for diesel cars.

In 2013 / 14 EOBD is no longer used, with new cars using MDI and direct uploads and downloads from Vauxhall Technical.

So Tech 2 is no longer usable for cars after 2013. And cars no longer have a security code or security pass.

My knowledge is with Vauxcom...
Seriously much faster than Tech 2, but fraught with errors and glitches on cars like the Vectra-C.

Don't even think of programming NCDC2013 / 15's unless you want a black screen.


Conversion Loom from ALDL to EOBD is as follows.

ALDL pin A (ground) goes to EOBD pins 4 & 5.

ALDL pin F (12 volts) goes to EOBD pin 16.

ALDL pin G (k-line kwp diagnostic) goes to EOBD pin 7.

Some say you should use ALDL pin K and link to EOBD pin 15 as an ECM wake up wire. Most diagnostic tools do not use pin 15... it never did anything with my car.

Most Cavalier engines are not supported, but Astra-F and Calibra engines are...

[colin1]

Good post Robsey
I bow to your superior knowledge on the subject - what does kwp stand for?

[humbucker]

It's these kind of posts that makes the forum great.