Page 1 of 1
Camshaft sensor or crankshaft sensor
Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:51 pm
by Colin118
Hi there I have a 1995 Vauxhall cavalier Sri 2l 16v going back four years ago I had the management light come on had it looked at and was told it was the camshaft sensor it was OK for a month and then the light came back on so they replaced that with another sensor and after a month or two the same problem again but after that money got tight so I took cavalier off the road, been of the road now for four years I start it and run it once a week, starts and runs fine to begin with but after 10 mins light comes back on and stalls the car I can turn it over and will start again but does not run very well I'd love to get it back on the road this year does anybody think it might not be the camshaft sensor it could be the crankshaft sensor appreciate anybody's help
Many thanks colin
Re: Camshaft sensor or crankshaft sensor
Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:02 pm
by planetc
Cam sensor signal loss will not generally stall the engine, it's very common for cam sensor signal to show up as a code from a loosely adjusted cambelt tensioner, so that's worth looking at. The only one I ever had that had repeated problems with it had a leaking windscreen, straight down the loom into the ecu socket. If the engine stops running though it may be something else going on.
Re: Camshaft sensor or crankshaft sensor
Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:28 am
by ilovedmymantas
Hi colin, probably best to start off with the famous " paperclip test" explained in the how to (
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=630), then tell us your findings
Re: Camshaft sensor or crankshaft sensor
Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:40 am
by Colin118
Thanks I'll give that a go
Re: Camshaft sensor or crankshaft sensor
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:22 am
by sribobby
Yip paper clip test will show you what sensor is dodgy. Sometimes its the wiring to the cam sensor that's at fault and not the sensor. Does the engine rev above 45000 rpm?
Re: Camshaft sensor or crankshaft sensor
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:08 am
by Colin118
Hi there managed to get out their today tried to do the paperclip test tried it five times but could not get anything flashing up on the dashboard I'm sure I have done everything correct don't know if I have to leave engine running for 10mins if anybody can help it would be much appreciated
Re: Camshaft sensor or crankshaft sensor
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:12 am
by Colin118
Yes it will rev above 45000 rpm
Re: Camshaft sensor or crankshaft sensor
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 2:06 pm
by Colin118
Hi there just had another go at this paperclip test this time I did not start the engine I just turnt the key and the lights started flashing as follows 2,1,2,1,2,1,9,1,9,1,9,9,2,9,2,9,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,9,1,9,1,9. This is as accurate as possible as I filmed I hope this means something to someone
Many thanks colin
Re: Camshaft sensor or crankshaft sensor
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 2:44 pm
by colin1
sribobby wrote:Does the engine rev above 45000 rpm?
Err... probably not
though possibly 4,500rpm. If the car is still roadworthy and you've got a decent, quiet stretch close by, a run which takes the car beyond 4,500prm will usually reveal a duff cam sensor - the engine will start jerking quite violently.
A duff cam sensor won't cause the engine to stall - well, I've never seen that happen
Does your car still have the old 3-pole cam sensor? GM realised that these were falling over like drunks at an Alcoholics Anonymous convention and replaced them with the more robust 4-pole cam sensor, it will comprise the sensor but with the new 4-pole plug. You will need to unsheath the cam harness far enough back to pick up the wiring for the fourth pole.
Re: Camshaft sensor or crankshaft sensor
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 4:05 pm
by Colin118
When the lights not on I'm sure it would run over 4500 but when the light is on it really lacks power I can't put it on the road as I have no tax,mot
The last sensor I had put on was the new one (4pin)
Re: Camshaft sensor or crankshaft sensor
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:13 pm
by sribobby
I think code 19 is crankshaft sensor. Usually the engine will limit at 4500 rpm if its a dodgy sensor. Cheap ones don't work either so make sure you buy a genuine one
Re: Camshaft sensor or crankshaft sensor
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:16 pm
by sribobby
colin1 wrote:sribobby wrote:Does the engine rev above 45000 rpm?
Err... probably not
Two many vodka lol. Adding on an extra 0!
though possibly 4,500rpm. If the car is still roadworthy and you've got a decent, quiet stretch close by, a run which takes the car beyond 4,500prm will usually reveal a duff cam sensor - the engine will start jerking quite violently.
A duff cam sensor won't cause the engine to stall - well, I've never seen that happen
Does your car still have the old 3-pole cam sensor? GM realised that these were falling over like drunks at an Alcoholics Anonymous convention and replaced them with the more robust 4-pole cam sensor, it will comprise the sensor but with the new 4-pole plug. You will need to unsheath the cam harness far enough back to pick up the wiring for the fourth pole.
Re: Camshaft sensor or crankshaft sensor
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:42 pm
by colin1
Colin118 wrote:...this time I did not start the engine I just turned the key and the lights started flashing as follows 2,1,2,1,2,1,9,1,9,1,9,9,2,9,2,9,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,9,1,9,1,9
Almost
what you got was:
12 12 12
19 19 19
92 92 92
12 12 12
19 is RPM signal (crankshaft sensor) incorrect signal
92 is cam sensor failure (XEV systems)
I would take the crank sensor out, clean it and replace it carefully. If the symptoms disappear for a while but reappear then I'd say it was the crank sensor and you've discovered that it needs replacing. Check both sensors for damaged harness shorting signal to the block or something
Re: Camshaft sensor or crankshaft sensor
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:23 am
by Colin118
Hi there that reply is much appreciated I'm no mechanic as you can probably tell haha is it straightforward to get at? Can I get to it from the top? Or do I have to get underneath? Don't laugh but where is it ?
Many thanks Colin
PS why do u think that every time I have took it to a garage they have always told me it's the camshaft sensor and I have had three fitted ??
Re: Camshaft sensor or crankshaft sensor
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:08 pm
by colin1
Colin118 wrote:Hi there that reply is much appreciated I'm no mechanic as you can probably tell haha is it straightforward to get at? Can I get to it from the top? Or do I have to get underneath? Don't laugh but where is it ?
Many thanks Colin
PS why do u think that every time I have took it to a garage they have always told me it's the camshaft sensor and I have had three fitted ??
Crank sensor is front of the block as you look in from the front, the left hand side - you will need to get under the front to see it properly and remove it. Cleaning the gunk off a badly maintained car's sensor can sometimes be all it needs but usually, if cleaning it is just buying you time between cleans it's a sign that the sensor's coming to the end of its life.
A thought with the cam sensor, if there is a bit of play with the harness in and out of the plug, push it home and hold it in place with insulating tape, you can do a neat job so it won't need to look bodged. Take the cam sensor out and give that a clean as well. Is the sensor plug properly seated on the block? It might need a clean out as well.
Depends on what sort of garage you took it to. If you took it to one of these highly-polished franchises with snappy showrooms then I'm afraid they don't have a great deal of time for these old-timers, they probably read the code off and made a spot decision based on what was thrown up, I doubt they'll have wasted much time investigating, there's no money in out-of-production cars for these places and with overheads on their snappy showrooms being pretty high, money is everything; wasting man-hours on Cavaliers and their ilk when they could be creaming it in running expensive diagnostics on the latest stuff is not something they're going to entertain.
Smaller, private outfits are your best bet, tell them the history of issues you've had with the cam sensor, let them have it for a couple of hours.
Re: Camshaft sensor or crankshaft sensor
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:14 pm
by Colin118
Hi there thanks for your help managed to get underneath and find it traced the cable back to where it starts noticed the cable was all britle and cracked also noticed I've got a slight oil leak on the rocker cover gasket which has been dripping down the cable which has collected around the outer casing of the crankshaft sensor not sure if this would effect anything I would of liked to have a go at taking it off but don't feel confident in putting it up on axil sdands so I think what I will have to do is to get a genuine part and try and find a garage to fit it thanks again for all your help once I get this done I'll let you know how it's getting on
Many thanks colin
Re: Camshaft sensor or crankshaft sensor
Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:07 pm
by colin1
Colin118 wrote:...also noticed I've got a slight oil leak on the rocker cover gasket which has been dripping down the cable which has collected around the outer casing of the crankshaft sensor not sure if this would affect anything ...
It certainly won't be helping
If you've got a leak at one point of your rocker (cam cover)* gasket then you've highly likely got leaks elsewhere on your cam cover gasket. One of the effects of a cam cover gasket that's had its day is that it will allow oil to pool in the spark plug recesses which will cause running problems
*it's been a long time since engines had rockers
Re: Camshaft sensor or crankshaft sensor
Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:25 pm
by Colin118
Hi there just been into a Vauxhall dealers for a price on the crankshaft sensor they want £126! For one does anyone know where I could get a genuine one from which is cheaper than that? The part number they gave me was 90451441
Many thanks
Re: Camshaft sensor or crankshaft sensor
Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:21 pm
by colin1
You could give Autovaux a try on 01924 376003
Re: Camshaft sensor or crankshaft sensor
Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:08 am
by sribobby
Even ebay has them. Make sure its Siemens though. I think cavalier and omega are the same, not Astra or vectra
Re: Camshaft sensor or crankshaft sensor
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:39 pm
by Colin118
hi there just like to update everybody who gave me advice on my cavalier fault. i managed to put the new crankshaft sensor on two weeks ago but after 5 mins of running the car the autonator belt decided to snap so i could not find out if i solved the problem. But today got the new belt on fired it up kept it running for 30mins and all good! touch wood id just like to thanks everybody for their help and advice now the work begins to get it back on the road
many thanks to you all !
Re: Camshaft sensor or crankshaft sensor
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:25 pm
by planetc
If you keep getting that light with code 92 check the timing belt tension.