James' 2.0 8v Diplomat

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James McGrath
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Re: James' 2.0 8v Diplomat

Post by James McGrath »

Ok I unplugged the ICV and it does idle allot more consistently. Only thing is it's slower not faster, it idles at a very steady 550rpm rather than the usual 850-900ish rpm.
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Re: James' 2.0 8v Diplomat

Post by Steven715 »

James McGrath wrote:It's not that bad. It just doesn't seem to stay at a perfectly constant RPM when idling.
It fluctuates up and down by maybe 50 RPM or less but it's enough to be audible to my ears.

I'll unplug the ICV and see what happens.
I need to do the same with mine as when it's warm the idle hunts up and down a little even when in the gear selector is in drive.
1995 (N) Cavalier 2.0 16V CDX
X20XVE Engine
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Re: James' 2.0 8v Diplomat

Post by Steven715 »

James McGrath wrote:Ok I unplugged the ICV and it does idle allot more consistently. Only thing is it's slower not faster, it idles at a very steady 550rpm rather than the usual 850-900ish rpm.
I'm only guessing but this makes sense if the ICV can't close all the way due to crud I believe these can be cleaned out with break or carb cleaner.
1995 (N) Cavalier 2.0 16V CDX
X20XVE Engine
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Robsey
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Re: James' 2.0 8v Diplomat

Post by Robsey »

Carb cleaner works a treat
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Mk3alan
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Re: James' 2.0 8v Diplomat

Post by Mk3alan »

I'd go easy with the cleaner as there is a bearing in the sealed part. I uncrimped the end and dismantled it, cleaned and lubed then stuck the end back with araldite.

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Re: James' 2.0 8v Diplomat

Post by James McGrath »

I've swapped out the ICV with one form my many spares:

Image


I picked the one which looked the cleanest inside then gave it a spray with carb cleaner.

Cam belt was done pretty well I thought. Sometimes you get the car back with all the hoses in the wrong place but it's been put back together nicely.
It is driving so much smother and it could be my imagination but it does seem a bit faster. It's a happy engine now:

Image


I looked it up in the history and the cam belt was changed at 143,000 miles on 7th September 2011, so longer ago than I thought. It's now done 170,000 miles, most of that was pretty harsh driving to Canterbury and back or short trips to work. This car it still my daily driver and does take allot of punishment so it was defiantly due a change.

Here's a quick vid of the results:


Link
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Re: James' 2.0 8v Diplomat

Post by Steven715 »

Nice fix engine sounds really good for 170K!
I have got to do the cam belt, water pump & idler when the warmer weather gets here. I first need to play with my MK2 and get it ready for its MOT and for the summer months.

Nice job!
1995 (N) Cavalier 2.0 16V CDX
X20XVE Engine
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James McGrath
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Re: James' 2.0 8v Diplomat

Post by James McGrath »

I've decided that the suspension needs a bit of a renewal. It's beginning to feel really stodgy around the bends compared to the V6 and even LS after it's suspension upgrades during the summer.
Seriously considering getting a set of Eibach Pro-Kit lowering springs along with a set of shock absorbers.
My other choice would be a set of standard SRi springs.
If I do go for the Eibach springs my budget will only stretch to a set of Bilstein B4 shocks though, not B6 or B8.
Anyone know if this will be a good combo?
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Re: James' 2.0 8v Diplomat

Post by tonyo »

I've thrown Eibachs on my Diplomat, along with standard Monroe shocks. Made a load of difference to the body roll, whilst keeping the ride nice and comfortable on the standard wheels and tyres. Eibachs dropped it enough to make the wheels fill the arches decently without making it look like its been lowered.
1992 Cav 2.0 8v Diplomat - RIP
1990 Astra 2.0 8v GTE Cabrio
2018 Jaguar XE 180 R-Sport
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James McGrath
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Re: James' 2.0 8v Diplomat

Post by James McGrath »

Sounds good to me.
There are an awful lot of potholes and rough patches of road where I live so I'd like the ride to remain fairly comfortable.

There is quite a good deal on at Daemon Tweaks at the moment, I think I'll order a set tonight. :)
I'll probably end up doing the same thing as you and replace the top mounts and ARB bushes at the same time.
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Re: James' 2.0 8v Diplomat

Post by Robsey »

Regarding the Bilstein B4 shocks...
I have them fitted along with Spax 40 / 30 mm lowered springs.

The car now runs on rails and feels very positive - but compared to how it used to feel on 20 year old springs and very baggy suspension and steering, it now feels quite harsh - even compared to our Vectra-C.

Hopefully things will "settle" into a more pleasing feel after a few months of driving.
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Re: James' 2.0 8v Diplomat

Post by James McGrath »

Right, I've ordered the Eibach Pro-Kit springs along with a full set of Bilstein B4s.
The springs are on 'special order' meaning it will be another couple of weeks before they arrive.

To complete the suspension update, I've also got a new set of Febi Bilstein top mounts, Genuine GM ARB bushes and Delphi steering arms, track rod ends and regulating bolts.

Quite glad I decided to do this now as I noticed a familiar metallic rattling noise the other day.
I looked this morning and it turns out the off-side front spring has broken.
I pulled out a piece of spring very similar to the one that came off the LS.
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Re: James' 2.0 8v Diplomat

Post by Robsey »

You will definitely feel the difference in how it handles and steers.

You will be pleased with the transformation.
Be like a new car again.
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Re: James' 2.0 8v Diplomat

Post by James McGrath »

Indeed, hopefully it will.

Apart from the springs and shocks I haven't ordered anything for the rear.

Do you think it's worth replacing the rubber spring seats or the rear beam axle/crossmember bushes?

I'd like to replace the bushes for the rear ARB too but it looks corroded on the ends.
I'm worried if I replace them they wont fit properly.

On a side note, does the rear anti-roll bar actually do anything?
Considering it's a compound crank setup at the rear, I wonder how much good a separate ARB would do.
My common sense tells be that it would do bugger all.
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Re: James' 2.0 8v Diplomat

Post by Robsey »

In the mk2 days, the smaller engined Cavaliers did not have a rear anti-roll bar.

As such the two trailing arms are joined by a > shaped steel beam. The beam will flex a little bit, as you can see if you raise one rear hub with a jack. The anti roll bar just slightly reduces the rotational flexing / twisting of the beam.

The ends of the bars will indeed be heavily corroded and chunks will have flaked off.
The best way around this is...
1 - get the arb shot blasted to remove all paint and loose metal flakes.
2 - get some sheet steel welded onto the flat bar ends to build up the ends to the necessary thickness.
(If you are really pedantic, you might get any additional metal brazed onto the bar, as brazing does not induce as much heat stress weakness to the bar that the sudden heat changes from welding would).
3 - grind / file to correct dimensions.
4 - paint or powder coat your anti roll bar.

My spring seat rubbers were very worn and splitting / cracked.
So I replaced mine anyway.
They are still readily available from the dealers or Genuine parts search... there isn't much difference in cost.
Note that the top rubbers are a little different from the bottom rubbers.

Regarding the rear beam main bushes... it all depends on the condition of yours.
If they look split / cracked or in any way worn, then yes replace them.
My bushes were okay, so I did not replace them.

I know you did not ask, but I will mention it anyway - Poly-bushes.
Poly-bushes are not as compliant as rubber, and so can make the ride more rigid and harsh.
Brand new rubber bushes will also feel harsh at first, until they get settled / worked in.
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Re: James' 2.0 8v Diplomat

Post by James McGrath »

Indeed, I'm familiar with the principal. However, I would have thought it would have been easier to simply make the rear beam a bit stiffer. This would achieve the same results and would have been cheaper than adding the extra components required for an ARB.

I suppose one reason why they added one was so they could say so in the marketing and make the suspension system sound more exotic to the customers.
Thinking about it, a roll bar would mean you could more easily finely tune the rear suspension for different models. I.E. have a thicker bar for sports models like the Sri and a thinner bar for the comfort orientated models.

One of the lower spring seat rubbers is split and the bushes on the ends of the ARB don't look that good either, the middle ones look good though.
As for the main crank/beam bushes I'm not sure, I'll have to take a closer look.

I've just ordered some lower rubber spring seats from GPS, but they only have 1 upper one on stock, I'll try my local dealer.
The rear ARB bushes are proving difficult; the only end ones I can find are £25 for a pair and I'm not sure which size middle ones I should get.
I've not considered poly-bushes, I'll try to get genuine where I can, do they offer any advantage other than being stiffer?

I'm going to get the good chaps at my garage to do most of this. I'll see what they say about the corrosion on the ARB and tell them what you have suggested. They are quite good welders as they specialise in custom exhausts. Depends how bad it is I suppose.
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Re: James' 2.0 8v Diplomat

Post by James McGrath »

I meant to do all of this last year, it was bad enough then and it's only gotten worse.
Here are a few photos of how she is at the moment:

These bushes have certainly seen better days and now that I see it, that top mount looks a bit rusty:

Image


Close up, some welding on the ARB defiantly required:

Image


Middle bushes look good at least:

Image


Main crank bushes look ok to me from this angle. Are they supposed to have that gap at the bottom?

Image

Image


Split rubber seat:

Image


This was the bit of spring that liberated itself form the rest of the car. practically identical to the piece that came off the LS:

Image


The old girl hasn't faired too well during the time I've owned it to be honest.
It's received the greatest amount of punishment and had the least amount spent on it.
First of all it had a year of going to and from Canterbury every day (a 90 mile round trip for me) across rough, wet, muddy country lanes and now it get's only very short 5 mile blasts to work. Again along wet, muddy lanes full of potholes.
As you can see in the photos, this means the underside is always wet and covered in mud and, this time of year, salt. Hardly ideal conditions.

It has been made quite clear by it's last MOT result that unless something is done, this could be it's last year on the road.
First of all I'm going to get the suspension sorted out, and then I'm going to target the rust, which is slowly eating away the wheel arches, front sub frame and especially the boot/inner rear wheel arch.
One reason for the delay was the engine rattle I was getting. I was honestly considering giving up on this car if the rattle had turned out to be something serious like main bearings.
Now that the rattle has been sorted and it's running so nicely, I've made up my mind to put everything I have into the Diplomat this year and give the old girl a new lease of life.

The list of things to do is long and daunting:

Interior:
-Stop water leak into drivers foot well
-Replace/refurbish steering wheel leather
-Re-upholster drivers A pillar
-Deep clean carpets

Mechanical:
-Replace all springs
-Replace all shock absorbers
-Replace suspension bushes/mounts where needed
-Replace steering arms and get tracking set properly
-Investigate front nearside CV joint (grinding noise on extreme turns)
-Tighten handbrake cable
-Investigate and fix air-con leak

Bodywork:
-Repair/replace inner and outer wheel arches
-Repair rust to the boot seams
-Patch up sills
-Repair rust to the O/S sub-frame
-Repair rust to the fuel filler area
-Investigate and fix water leak in boot

Paintwork:
-All of it! - not a single panel is free from dents, lacquer peel or deep scratches.

On the up side the engine is now running superbly well, and all of the eclectics are working perfectly.
Which in my opinion are the hardest two things to fix if they go wrong.


Now for some lighter news!

Finally got round to painting the wiper arms:

Image

A bit of an OE upgrade - changed the old peeling wing mirror glass for a new genuine blind spot mirror:

Image
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Re: James' 2.0 8v Diplomat

Post by Mk3alan »

Looks like somebody won't be getting bored for a while!

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Re: James' 2.0 8v Diplomat

Post by Robsey »

In response to your split bush question.

Both of your bushes have a very clean straight cleavage on them.
So I would say that these look like they should indeed be like that.

You are looking for perishing or cracking of the rubber - in a similar way that your car tyres should be.

When you get your rubber spring seats, they will look like they have fine crack or crazing lines in them.
That is perfectly normal.
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Re: James' 2.0 8v Diplomat

Post by Lowrider Dave »

The ARB on Archer was quite corroded, so I visited a local company who make scroll gates (and other stuff) as they would have the equipment and asked them if they would build up the ends with a bit of bar. Cash in hand job was done and I had it powder coated. I may have some ARB rubbers spare if you are still looking. On both the rear beams I have done I gut them - then shot blast and powder coat them before adding the new mounting bushes and ARB end and middle bushes.

I bought some Powerflex bushes for the V6, only to discover that V6 ARB are thicker and Powerflex don't make bushes for that thickness. No-one wanted them when I offered them for sale so I binned them, a costly lesson. I won't bother with stiffer bushes, it gives a harsher ride and therefore not really what I'd want in an everyday car.
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Re: James' 2.0 8v Diplomat

Post by James McGrath »

I still need all of the ARB bushes, even the front ones now as the ones I ordered are no longer available, so if you do have any I've got dosh waiting.
I have managed to order some genuine upper rubber rear spring seats now though so I have a full set of those on order.

Suspension parts I still need:
Front ARB bushes (22mm I think) - 90447867 x2
Rear ARB end bushes - 90236353 x2
Rear ARB middle bushes (18mm I think) - ??? x2

The ARBs on the V6 are an odd size.
The rear one is thicker than the Diplomat but the front one is much thinner which I thought was a bit odd.
I have to say it works though. V6 is surprisingly more planted than any of my other Cavs.
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Re: James' 2.0 8v Diplomat

Post by Lowrider Dave »

ARB bushes

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vauxhall-Cava ... SwiONYQZHL

Cheap to get from germany though.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PU-Stabilager ... SwwbdWN5IL
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Re: James' 2.0 8v Diplomat

Post by Lowrider Dave »

This guy has a lot of different rubber parts for the Vectra available:

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/HistoMondial/O ... 9175303010
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Re: James' 2.0 8v Diplomat

Post by James McGrath »

Thanks for the links Dave. :thumb

Just one thing I'm still slightly unsure of is the size of the rear ARB.
Without a pair of accurate calipers it's a bit difficult to tell.

Both EPC and Ecat24 give two options, 17mm and 19mm.

I measured the diameter closer to 17mm.

So I think it has a 22mm front ARB and a 17mm rear ARB, does this sound about right for a C20NE circa 1993?
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Re: James' 2.0 8v Diplomat

Post by Lowrider Dave »

Could be, difficult to tell given the options - I would check mine but I'm away this week.
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