93 Cav LS - Cav Number 3 (This one will get finished)

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James McGrath
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Re: 93 Cav LS - Cav Number 3 (This one will will get finishe

Post by James McGrath »

just out in interest, what sort of MPG do you get out of the 18SE and how does it compare to a C20NE?
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Re: 93 Cav LS - Cav Number 3 (This one will will get finishe

Post by Robsey »

I am sure Gary will know this as he often checked his miles per litre usage.

I know that there is bugger all difference between a 89 bhp C18NZ and a 113 bhp C20NE.

I recall Gary often telling me that the 18SE often did more miles to the gallon than my C18NZ did about eight years ago.
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Re: 93 Cav LS - Cav Number 3 (This one will will get finishe

Post by James McGrath »

That's interesting.
My C16NZ2 is a heck of allot better than my 20NE/C20NE Cavs. I've Just completed 610 miles to a full tank in the LS - admittedly 500 miles of that was on the motorway going up to meet you in Crewe but hey.
I would have thought the C18NZ wouldn't be that far off, especially as the 1.8 Cavs had wider ratio gearing.
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Re: 93 Cav LS - Cav Number 3 (This one will will get finishe

Post by Envoy CDX »

Well, it's funny you mention the C16NZ2 - I used to silly miles in mine (L860BFT - my first ever cav). And when I say silly miles, fuel was 76.9p per litre, long long time ago but I was getting over 120miles to 10 litres.

However, the 18SE I recall 35mpg being a common figure in my workings out. On a trek, I could get 40mpg + but with te F16 box, I was sitting at around 2600rpm at 75, or that is what was indicated :) but we're talking 6 years ago now, so this is all from memory.

my old c18nz was never really economical, especially when bolted to the autobox, just felt strangled all the time.
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Re: 93 Cav LS - Cav Number 3 (This one will will get finishe

Post by James McGrath »

I can believe it. The c16nz2 is a great little engine imo.

Yeah those MPGs sound about the same as my C20NE Diplomat.
So what you were getting is pretty good considering it's on an older management system.

The autobox can be very contrasting in my experience. I got 50MPG once on a run but it can dip as low as 25 when going along lanes. This is on a non-cat 20NE.
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Re: 93 Cav LS - Cav Number 3 (This one will will get finishe

Post by Envoy CDX »

James McGrath wrote:I can believe it. The c16nz2 is a great little engine imo.

Yeah those MPGs sound about the same as my C20NE Diplomat.
So what you were getting is pretty good considering it's on an older management system.

The autobox can be very contrasting in my experience. I got 50MPG once on a run but it can dip as low as 25 when going along lanes. This is on a non-cat 20NE.
Pretty good all the same I find :)
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Re: 93 Cav LS - Cav Number 3 (This one will will get finishe

Post by Envoy CDX »

So, nipped down the garage today, well - I say nipped down.. takes an hour each way if I am behaving myself..
To find the rear passenger side rear arch chopped out in places. the metal was really good in spots, too good to just cut out and slap a full arch repair panel in so, it is getting jigsawed back in as needed, it will take more time this way but I like original metal over repair panel metal any day of the week so, pics to follow (when I get home).

Passenger side sill has been repaired / partly replaced in the same fashion as the arch will be, bad metal cut out, clean metal exposed, panel cut to suit and welded in place.

Once the arch is done, it's onto the other side to do the rear floor, chassis leg, cross members and spare wheel well.

Probably won't be many more updates till the end of January unfortunately (as I have no more holidays left.
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Re: 93 Cav LS - Cav Number 3 (This one will will get finishe

Post by Robsey »

Looking forward to the pictures.

I love resto threads.
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Re: 93 Cav LS - Cav Number 3 (This one will will get finishe

Post by Envoy CDX »

Half a sill replaced, it was discussed and decided that as much original metal would be kept as to be honest, I really don't like the quality of most repair panels that you can buy off the shelf. The pressings aren't all that, the lines aren't nice and crisp and they take alot of work to get the panel ripples out where the press hasn't had enough pressure on it to give you that nice line - so, old sill cut back to good metal and the repair panel cut to suit then welded in, and covered up in primer.
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This is why said sill was chopped out: Granted, only half really needed to come out, but the inner sill was to be inspected just incase so..

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Onto the rear arch, now rear arches on a Cav are one of those places that really feck me off, especially when it comes to the dogleg and the fact that it should be 2 panels to begin with not one bit repair panel usually with a wonkey lip pressed in to make it look "factory". Anyhow, this arch wasn't too bad, but as per usual expected worse and cut out more than required. Ooops. However, I have never seen such a clean inner arch.. Have you?

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In the above picture, where the paint has been stripped back on the dogleg, that lip needs chopped off and replaced, the repair panel has been cut to fit (within fettling range anyhow) but I didn't get any pictures of that.

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So, passenger side is getting there, and I am rather nervous in all honesty as it means I need to start thinking abut how this thing is going to go back together. How I want things to fit, what to fit and where. Do I want conventional fittings and fixtures that are lets be honest more than often a water trap, do I want exposed threads popping out of the floor? I think not.. time to devise a solution.... Urgh..
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Re: 93 Cav LS - Cav Number 3 (This one will will get finishe

Post by Robsey »

Lovely progress.

I agree totally about keeping as much original metal as possible.
Sadly with my workhorse, there wasn't very much original metal to work with.
Although standing outdoors in all weathers did not help my jalopey either.

That inner arch does indeed look quite solid.
Probably because you always said that you removed the foam insulation above it because it acts like a sponge holding water.

Now then - what to do with the interior?
Well you have enough stuff to make up three cars, so I am sure you will come up with something. :D

Exposed threads? - I presume you mean pipe clamps for the fuel and brake lines.
Any brazed on captive fixture will be better than drilling holes through the floor pan for nuts and bolts.
And wrap around metal flexi-straps can chafe the pipework.

Whichever is the least of all evils.
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Re: 93 Cav LS - Cav Number 3 (This one will will get finishe

Post by btcctroy »

nice work!
did you do a joggle join on the sill.
a butt weld would of looked tidier if I'm being anal
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Re: 93 Cav LS - Cav Number 3 (This one will will get finishe

Post by Envoy CDX »

Robsey wrote:Lovely progress.

I agree totally about keeping as much original metal as possible.
Sadly with my workhorse, there wasn't very much original metal to work with.
Although standing outdoors in all weathers did not help my jalopey either.
It is isn't it :) can't dwell on that Rob - it's pretty much there now, so you have to look at how you WILL look after it going forward :)
Robsey wrote: That inner arch does indeed look quite solid.
Probably because you always said that you removed the foam insulation above it because it acts like a sponge holding water.
Yeah, the foam and insulation has alot to answer for, especially since over the years, I've seen how badly metal can sweat in our climate with hot cold influx's and the condensation pooling in various areas of the car, even after being in doors for 4 years, the car still had water before panel seams - so, lesson for all, seal it up nice and tight!
Robsey wrote: Now then - what to do with the interior?
Well you have enough stuff to make up three cars, so I am sure you will come up with something. :D
I have no interior seats, or sill covers, however, there are plans in the noggin for that, just not sure how to execute as of yet.
Robsey wrote: Exposed threads? - I presume you mean pipe clamps for the fuel and brake lines.
Any brazed on captive fixture will be better than drilling holes through the floor pan for nuts and bolts.
And wrap around metal flexi-straps can chafe the pipework.

Whichever is the least of all evils.
Well, I'll be honest, I have been watching alot of Binky of late, and my friend John, has a lathe.. so was thinking Nylon caps to go round the pipe and then unsure how I want to hole them to the car as of yet. But it will come to me.
btcctroy wrote:nice work!
did you do a joggle join on the sill.
a butt weld would of looked tidier if I'm being anal
Cheers, it's joggled as neither Wayne or I like butt welds where they can be avoided, slightly less chance of panel warping that way too.

Wish I'd gotten pics of inside the sill as well, there was barely any rot on the lip, or strengtheners. Which btw were a bugger to mark up on the new sill to weld through and anchor it down :)

I am not looking forward to the top of the windscreen when that gets done in fact I am going to be nowhere in sight when thats getting lopped out and stitched back in, I don't think my heart could take the pressure.
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Re: 93 Cav LS - Cav Number 3 (This one will will get finishe

Post by Robsey »

I am sure it will be fine.
Just get a qualified windscreen technician to remove the screen glass.

Do the repairs, and paint job,
Then get the screen chap to refit the screen.

If you are being clever, you could get him to fit a Vectra-C or Omega-B mirror mount to the screen, and then you can have an auto dimming interior mirror :cool
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Re: 93 Cav LS - Cav Number 3 (This one will will get finishe

Post by Envoy CDX »

Robsey wrote:I am sure it will be fine.
Just get a qualified windscreen technician to remove the screen glass.

Do the repairs, and paint job,
Then get the screen chap to refit the screen.

If you are being clever, you could get him to fit a Vectra-C or Omega-B mirror mount to the screen, and then you can have an auto dimming interior mirror :cool
Screen is removed, it was chipped anyhow so I cut it out myself and smashed it in a bin :)
I want the right boss fitted but need to work out the height the mirror needs to be placed at as the Cav one would be too low for either of those.
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Re: 93 Cav LS - Cav Number 3 (This one will will get finishe

Post by btcctroy »

Envoy CDX wrote:
Cheers, it's joggled as neither Wayne or I like butt welds where they can be avoided, slightly less chance of panel warping that way too.
i have to disagree, a joggled join is stronger. There is more material to weld so more ampage is needed, this could easily distort panels. horrible unwelded flanges remain!
joggled joins are unsightly and need loads of filler, something my customers want to avoid.
i pretty much butt weld everything, i like the invisible join!
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Re: 93 Cav LS - Cav Number 3 (This one will will get finishe

Post by Envoy CDX »

btcctroy wrote:
Envoy CDX wrote:
Cheers, it's joggled as neither Wayne or I like butt welds where they can be avoided, slightly less chance of panel warping that way too.
i have to disagree, a joggled join is stronger. There is more material to weld so more ampage is needed, this could easily distort panels. horrible unwelded flanges remain!
joggled joins are unsightly and need loads of filler, something my customers want to avoid.
i pretty much butt weld everything, i like the invisible join!
Looking at the results, there isn't going to be alot of filler in it. But I guess it depends on what you mean by loads of filler.
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Re: 93 Cav LS - Cav Number 3 (This one will will get finishe

Post by Envoy CDX »

So, the arch is now in place. Dog leg has also been repaired.
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Re: 93 Cav LS - Cav Number 3 (This one will will get finishe

Post by Robsey »

Funky monkeys.
Even more progress.
That is what we like to hear.

Nearly time to do the other side. Woohoo.
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Re: 93 Cav LS - Cav Number 3 (This one will will get finishe

Post by Envoy CDX »

Aye, rinse and repeat for the most part, other than the sill and arch already being done, but very tempted to have a peak under the outer skins.
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Re: 93 Cav LS - Cav Number 3 (This one will will get finishe

Post by Robsey »

Always interesting / scary to see what is hiding within.

You could ask them to take pictures as they progress.

I have hundreds of pics from mine.
Nice to look back on it.
Amazing how hard it is to make sense of many of the pictures. (The angles that they are viewed from to pick out any specific details).

I do like a good before and after story with stacks of pictures.
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Re: 93 Cav LS - Cav Number 3 (This one will will get finishe

Post by Envoy CDX »

At the moment, I am just happy that it's progressing.
You're right about it being scary though.
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Re: 93 Cav LS - Cav Number 3 (This one will will get finishe

Post by James McGrath »

Great progress. Looks like we might all have Cavs on the road for next summer.
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Re: 93 Cav LS - Cav Number 3 (This one will will get finishe

Post by Envoy CDX »

James McGrath wrote:Great progress. Looks like we might all have Cavs on the road for next summer.
Maybe :)
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Re: 93 Cav LS - Cav Number 3 (This one will will get finishe

Post by Envoy CDX »

Bit more of an update, well pictures to go with my last update. Workshop is closed up for Christmas / New Year but that didn't stop me getting down there just before hand and getting some more pictures whilst fitting 4 new tyres to the Yaris (have to say or El' Cheapo's 3A tyres are fantastic!)

Anyhow....

First plate in the front floor (well, 4 to be exact).
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And underneath.
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So, that's one side (on the face of it) looking fairly well sorted
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Floor still needs sorting, rear wheel well to be replaced and so on, but it is looking much better than it has in years!

Couple more shots of the arches and how they look for now.

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Re: 93 Cav LS - Cav Number 3 (This one will will get finishe

Post by Robsey »

All coming on very nicely.

There is something to be said for seeing new metal going in, and watching the old girl take shape again. :raindeer :santa :thumb

All excellent progress. :cool

Nice to hear that the Yaris is still working well for you. And new rubber too -
Merry Christmas Yaris. :cheers
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