1994 Cavalier LSi C20NE (was C18NZ) Work-horse

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Robsey
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Re: 1994 Cavalier LSi C20NE (was C18NZ) Work-horse

Post by Robsey »

Well my Octane plug arrived from GPS...
So as it is the law, here is the before and after sequence.

So here is the packet showing the part number.
Image

Before -
Image

After -
Image

And the verdict...
I am glad that James pointed me to this as I would never have known that there were specific plugs for the 2 litre 8 valve engines. So I fitted the plug after disconnecting the car battery.
Reconnected the battery and took the car for a lively spin around southern and central Manchester.
Definitely seems livelier and happier, and the throttle feels more responsive.

On a hot start, the engine revs did dip momentarily, but a quick blip of the gas settled everything. So much better.
There is still a bit of jitteriness when hot idling, so I am assuming that this is the idle control valve.

I shall know for sure, as I have a replacement due to arrive in the next few days..
I shall report back when this is fitted.

Further news - I have got my CD70 sat nav radio and colour display wired up and working on the kitchen table.
Just a few minor niggles, such as the Bluetooth module (UHP4) refusing to pair up.
I have to use about three different versions of OpCom / Vauxcom to program everything.
100219a for the headunit
110530 Advanced for the Bluetooth unit
131223d to program the display variance tables.
Hmm - what was that pass code again - lol.
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Re: 1994 Cavalier LSi C20NE (was C18NZ) Work-horse

Post by Robsey »

I have driven the car for a few days with a replacement ICV.
Working but used is how it was described.

When I first fitted it, the car refused to start, and there was minimal difference when the car finally started and was able to idle.
As time went on, I think "some" improvement has been made.
The revs still drop a little when coming off the gas after a brisk drive.
But more often than not it recovers by itself.

I also noticed that the throttle cable had no "free play" in it.
What led to me to look here?
Well the board computer was not going to 999.9 mpg on over-run no matter how I tried.

So I have adjusted the cable to allow slack, and I am now getting 999.9 on over-run.
But the car feels less eager to accelerate.

All good fun...
I cannot be 100% certain that all the improvements aren't all due to fitting the correct octane plug.

Only more time will tell, I suppose.
:roll:
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ilovedmymantas
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Re: 1994 Cavalier LSi C20NE (was C18NZ) Work-horse

Post by ilovedmymantas »

It's been a long time since I had an 8 valver but ICV's always seem to be a problem with cav's.

My experience, albeit with 15 years overall of xev engines and previously four with an seh has taught me to :
1. Buy a new 'pattern part' icv
2. Fit it and then clean the hell out of your original one, you're going to need it as a spare :lol:

x20xev
For me a used one from auction site managed 3 cleans & changes before becoming useless but I can still clean and change between the original and pattern one when it starts acting up.( That's about once a year )
If your used replacement's playing up try your cleaned original. If it's the icv ,that usually works. ( I would also clean out the 'new' one, just in case and try again if needed ! )
If both are still crap I'd probably be thinking fuel filter/pressure.
Apologies if I'm stating the obvious :oops:

You know you've left it too long when it cuts out turning across oncoming traffic :o

James McGrath wrote:
cavalier1990 wrote:James, do you find it better MPG or about the same? I know Super U/L is dearer mind you but wondered if it made any difference.
I think it's about the same. But to be honest I don't do enough miles in that car to notice.
It definitely does feel livelier though.
I changed to super unleaded with my last cav, an ecotec sri.
After being forced to rebuild the head thanks to a cowboy mechanic not replacing the (supplied!) water-pump, I decided my car would run on super-unleaded, after a short spell on regular.
After all, I thought, she's getting on a bit and deserves the best :D .
It didn't hurt that I could ensure the injectors were always clean without messing about with redex.
The sri did feel more lively having previously been on regular.
I can't comment on my cdx as I've only ever run it on super (mainly shell v power but not brand loyal) and the gearbox is a crap wide-ratio :roll:
Just done a 400 mile round trip to Blackpool. 200 miles down with aircon on- 37mpg average.
200 back with aircon off - 42mpg.
Although I know it's not very accurate I still had a quarter tank showing when I topped up at 427 miles, put £20 in and went to half a tank :D
I'm quite happy using super-unleaded.
The only problem I have with it, as I increasingly seem to turn into an old-fart is 'this smacks of the de-valuation that happened during decimalisation' .
4 star had the equivalent RON(therefore energy?) rating to super unleaded. Regular unleaded therefore is a 'diluted' version without the benefit of cleaners.
The other consideration is the further dilution of regular unleaded with ethanol ( don't quote me 'cos I'm tired) but that stuff rots everything old and reduces power :evil:
I guess I'm thinking , after all the money she's cost you and will cost you in the future ( like the rest of us :lol: ) , treat her well. I think the older 8v engines would benefit from premium fuel just as you would use the best oil
Apologies again, I did say I was tired but I just had to finish :lol:
" It's not rust. It's age-related patina " ;)

1980 vauxhall cavalier MK1 1.6L, 1982 opel manta berlinetta 1.8s, 1985 opel manta 2.0 gte, 1990 cavalier 2.0 gl ,1994 cavalier sri x20xev

-1995 cdx x20xev

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Robsey
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Re: 1994 Cavalier LSi C20NE (was C18NZ) Work-horse

Post by Robsey »

No problem...
I spend 95% of my waking life being tired, so can relate fully.
I tend to waffle when tired - hence my very long wordy posts.

To be honest, I got a used original part because I simply didn't have the funds for a new one. (High maintenance / standard attributes wife puts paid to any thoughts of savings - like they do... ha ha).

Also it was off a V6 car, which usually suffer a lot less - I don't know why. And from a supplier that I trusted.

So more or less, the plan was to see if there was "any" difference by fitting a different ICV, as this had the potential to indicate any short comings in my existing ICV. - Assuming the replacement did not have "exactly" the same fault as the original... which is still quite likely.
But you don't know if you don't try.

As James points out, there is no 98 ron octane plug setting for the C20NE.
I have tried BP's super unleaded once recently... nearly cried when I saw the price per litre.. :cry
I didn't really notice much difference apart from the shade of the red ink on my bank balance.

I have a history of getting high mileages out of all of my cars, none of which have appeared 'that' worn after 170,000 + miles.
But that is due to good solid 8 valve engines, and not my care and devotion.

The C18NZ managed to 227k with no smoke, excess bearing noise nor compression losses, however I find the head gaskets fail easily under enthusiastic driving.

The C20NE and a previous 13S engines have proved to be much more durable and bullet proof.
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Re: 1994 Cavalier LSi C20NE (was C18NZ) Work-horse

Post by James McGrath »

ilovedmymantas wrote:4 star had the equivalent RON(therefore energy?) rating to super unleaded. Regular unleaded therefore is a 'diluted' version without the benefit of cleaners.
The other consideration is the further dilution of regular unleaded with ethanol ( don't quote me 'cos I'm tired) but that stuff rots everything old and reduces power :evil:
I guess I'm thinking , after all the money she's cost you and will cost you in the future ( like the rest of us :lol: ) , treat her well. I think the older 8v engines would benefit from premium fuel just as you would use the best oil
Apologies again, I did say I was tired but I just had to finish :lol:

The RON or octane raiding of fuel is, I quote, 'a measurement of the fuel’s ability to resist engine knocking'.
So it's not really more energy, it's just higher quality which enables you to run higher compression ratios without knocking.
It's this increase in compression ratio which will increase efficiency and therefor give you more power.

That being said the difference between 95 and 98 is very small.

The lead added to 4 star petrol helped improve the octane of the fuel. This was to help prevent knocking on older cars (we're talking 50's/60's era) which could not dynamically adjust their compression ratios like modern engines or weren't built to the level of manufacturing precision that most later 70's/80's/90's cars were.
It also had the added benefit if acting as a lubricant. Many cars were designed with this lubricating factor in mind. This is why some cars needed to be converted to use unleaded fuel as their valve guides were not strong enough to function without the lubrication of the lead.

As for ethanol, the jury is still out. It's actually quite good for your engine as it to prevents knocking and enables you to run very high compression ratios. You hear about highly modified performance cars that run on 85% ethanol for instance.
Ethanol is also a strong solvent so it keeps the fuel system nice and clean.

It's biggest downside is that it's hydroscopic, meaning it collects water over time (a bit like brake fluid). This is fine if you use your car all the time as it doesn't have time to collect very much water.
If you leave your car sitting for long periods of time all sorts of problems can occur.
The build up of moisture can cause rust in both the fuel tank and internal engine components for example.
The fact that it's a solvent also has it's downside; it can indeed eat through some rubber components such as fuel lines.

In reality, as long as you're not on your original set of fuel lines and get through al least 1 tank full of petrol every 6 months then you have nothing to worry about.
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Robsey
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Re: 1994 Cavalier LSi C20NE (was C18NZ) Work-horse

Post by Robsey »

James McGrath wrote:
. I can indeed eat through some rubber components such as fuel lines.
Does your mum not feed you!! ??

and - I thought it was Hygroscopic... - absorbs water.
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Re: 1994 Cavalier LSi C20NE (was C18NZ) Work-horse

Post by James McGrath »

Ah, yes wrong word.

Edited.
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Mk3alan
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Re: 1994 Cavalier LSi C20NE (was C18NZ) Work-horse

Post by Mk3alan »

Tetraethyllead, as was used in 2,4 and 5 star fuel as well as improving octane was a very important product for protecting valve seats.
Without the lead, exhaust valves closing would 'fuse' (weld) into their seats, upon opening again small parts of the cast iron valve seat would be torn off hence valve seat recession. This effect would be at its worst under long heavy load conditions or high speed motorway travel.
Older vehicles with cast iron seats (my side valve Morris is one such vehicle) that have been run for years on leaded fuel will have a 'lead memory', a build up of lead on the valve seat which will postpone valve recession.
Modern additives, I use Castrol Valve master, use other materials to give a similar effect to lead but without changing the fuels octane value.
All of our Vauxhall's have got alloy heads and will be fitted with hardened valve seats which make them suitable for running on leaded fuel (catalyst permitting!)
My 1990 Cav is one such that was able to run on either by not having a cat.

Alan
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Re: 1994 Cavalier LSi C20NE (was C18NZ) Work-horse

Post by Robsey »

Okay - minor update..
No progress though. :wall

I am still using the car as my work horse.
However the car is causing me more grief.

The idle control valve did not help for long.
Car stalls out on idle within 30 seconds of a hot start. :wall

And my clutch is getting progressively heavier - especially when the car is at hot running temperature.

Sadly my bank manager is not being very supportive after I have already spent a small fortune on the restoration.
So just a matter of doing any free fixes and maintenance.

On a bright note - I pulled into the yard of one of our mobility device repair agents.

When reversing into a space, I observed one of the young lads with his mouth gaping wide open and looking very excited. :love

He and a friend left the car park before I had chance to chat.

Half an hour later, the friend came into the repair agents building asking if the Cav was an 8 valve.
I confirmed it was.

The friend stated that the original lad was "desperate to buy" my car.

I said it would cost him 3 grand.
But despite the gremlins, I am not selling the car. :no
Definitely not for a 3 grand loss. :shock:

I am there again tomorrow, so will see if they are there again...
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Re: 1994 Cavalier LSi C20NE (was C18NZ) Work-horse

Post by James McGrath »

Strange about the hot start stalling. Shame we're not closer, maybe a Tech1 session would shed some light on the problem or at least eliminate some possibilities.

Always nice when your car gets some attention.

It's one of the many points I make if anyone ever asks me why I like Cavaliers; 'When was the last time someone came up to you and said how much they liked your car?'
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Re: 1994 Cavalier LSi C20NE (was C18NZ) Work-horse

Post by Robsey »

Very odd indeed about hot start issue.

Strange how the car has been a totally different animal since pre- restoration.

When it is cool it works spot on, it is great.
A total dream.

When it is hot, it is a nightmare. I hate it.

Lol
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Re: 1994 Cavalier LSi C20NE (was C18NZ) Work-horse

Post by Robsey »

As a side issue, I have been having further struggles with my Vectra-C / Astra-H sat nav radio loom.

Not sure what is wrong, but the ignition live and illumination control circuits appear to be acting odd.

Not sure if it is a module fault (CIM or BCM) or a display CAN communications error.

I have updated the CD70 head unit firmware to 20-06-2008.
All good fun considering the radio and loom were all in the kitchen powered by a pc power supply unit.
Some 30 feet from the nearest car - ha ha.

Image

Image

No idea why it took 9 years for the update disc to be released.
Don't really know what benefits it has.

The previous update 10-10-2007 disc was to allow for changes from TMC to TM-tmc on the 2010 onward Navteq maps.

So far I cannot see any difference.
Maybe if / when I finally get it all installed and running, I will find out.

For the time being, my Dayton VDO single din gps radio is working fine... apart from naff sound quality.
Unless I crank it up to near full when the sound is rich and lush.

But then I prefer to keep my hearing for a bit longer - lol
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Re: 1994 Cavalier LSi C20NE (was C18NZ) Work-horse

Post by Robsey »

Okay - looks like I sussed out the illumination issue.

Some bright spark in the Russelheim factory has decided to use a brown wire for an interior illumination signal wire.
Ordinarily plain brown wires are ground wires.
So I must have shorted a signal wire to ground.

They had also fitted a red wire that was not a battery live... tssk!! Typical.
I had never connected this though as it was on the out-side of the body control module.

So I will test it all again this evening when I get some free time.

Typical Vauxhall / Opel... trying to confuse things for the hell of it.
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Re: 1994 Cavalier LSi C20NE (was C18NZ) Work-horse

Post by Envoy CDX »

The hot start issie is likely a grounding issue.
There should be some loom earths to the top of the rocker cover - if they're loose, or corroded this will cause the issues you've described (did on my Dad's 2litre, and it did on Smokey too.

Failing that, you're down to battery, starter, and ecu..
Definitely think its grounding issues though.
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Re: 1994 Cavalier LSi C20NE (was C18NZ) Work-horse

Post by Robsey »

Thanks Gary.
I am sure the starter isn't mega old.
The battery is less than 6 months old, and the alternator is only about 5 years old.
So overall the big electrical pieces should be okay.

Thr ECU was fine when the car went in for resto.
I clearly recall it being removed before any welding was carried out.

As for ground wires... yes there are about half-a-dozen on the plastic injector trunking going to various points on the cam-housing cover and to the metal bracket at the gearbox end.

I can have a look in a few days.

I know that more often than not, the car is fine even when hot, it just struggles with some (random) hot starts, or the idle revs drop below 500 when hot - but gentle blipping of the go pedal seems to sort things every time.

I am not driving the Cav at the moment because I managed to wreck my back.

I am only in pain when sat down or bending at the waist.
The Vectra is higher off the ground, so easier to get out of the car.
(The Cav has deep sided SRi seats and lowered road springs).
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Re: 1994 Cavalier LSi C20NE (was C18NZ) Work-horse

Post by Robsey »

Back onto the infotainment system.

I finally got it all working properly, including ignition logic, illumination etc.

It was a faulty light switch pcb.
I cleaned it with brake cleaner spray and wiped clean with a clean tissue.

It was then that I could see damaged tracks where wires had been soldered on for the control relay.

Finding solder points further up the tracks effected a good working repair.

So here is my headunit and display reacting to the light switch in "auto" mode.

Image

Another trick I did the other day was to reverse the 8 pin X32 connector on my body control module.
The plastic pin holder simply levers out of the holes in the circuit board.
Flip it onto the top face of the pcb.
Then press it carefully back into the location holes.

This pointed the pins up into the casing, rather than down out of the back, where it would normally plug into the fuse panel at the end of the Vectra-C dash.

Then a small hole for the wire to pass through the casing.

Image

Image

This leaves the back clear and flat to fit behind the glovebox.
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Re: 1994 Cavalier LSi C20NE (was C18NZ) Work-horse

Post by Envoy CDX »

epic! hope the back is fine soon!
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Re: 1994 Cavalier LSi C20NE (was C18NZ) Work-horse

Post by James McGrath »

Nice work there. Very neat. :thumb
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Re: 1994 Cavalier LSi C20NE (was C18NZ) Work-horse

Post by Robsey »

Thanks James,
480 x 640 pictures can be very forgiving - ha ha.

I have been looming up the full conversion loom. Spiral wrapping the wires with black pvc tape cut to 6mm width.
Makes it look more "factory".

Just need to decide where it will all go - there is so much loom to fit in.
In the Vectra it goes across the entire width and runs the full height and depth of the dash.

I suspect that most will go behind the glovebox, or it may actually reach far enough for me to hide most of it under the passenger seat.
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Re: 1994 Cavalier LSi C20NE (was C18NZ) Work-horse

Post by Robsey »

Then it will be the job of pulling out 3/4 of the dash -
Heater panel, radio facia, instruments, centre console.

I will also be fitting the stalk wiring loom and dash tell-tale bulb (and symbol) for the cruise control unit, to save me pulling it all out again any time soon.

Cheers Gary,
Not much chance of my back recovering any time soon -
I have to lift the wife's powered wheelchair into and out of her car upto 6 or 7 times a week. It weighs 76Kg, which is about 12 stones.
Even after dismantling, there are three parts in excess of 2 or 3 stones in weight. :no
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Re: 1994 Cavalier LSi C20NE (was C18NZ) Work-horse

Post by Robsey »

Okay - so you want to know how difficult it is to build a standalone CANbus driven Infotainment system.

Here it is broken into three sections.

1 - The display and headunit.
There are separate looms not shown here for -
RGB colour video for the maps,
Bluetooth module for the phone,
And two aerials (RF & GPS).
Image

2 - Body control module, light switch, dimmer switch and ambient temperature sensor.
Image

3 - Collumn integrated module.
Image

The 16 pin EOBD socket....is in the bottom right corner of the 2nd photo.

Images hosted by postimages :mrgreen:
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Re: 1994 Cavalier LSi C20NE (was C18NZ) Work-horse

Post by Robsey »

Not really difficult,
Just a lot of wires running around like spaghetti on speed.

Vauxhall looms are very messy, and so I had to undo all looming tape, remove the myriad of un-needed plugs and wires, then re-loom as tidy as possible.

If I put the connectors in the same locations that they take in the Vectra-C....

The CIM (collumn integrated module) would sit somewhere in the dash behind the instruments, light switch or fuse box.

In the centre from top to bottom you would have display, head unit and diagnostic socket (eobd).

And on the left behind the glovebox goes the BCM (body control module) :ugeek:
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Re: 1994 Cavalier LSi C20NE (was C18NZ) Work-horse

Post by cavalier1990 »

Wow Robsey I think you are trying to build the docs time machine there! Quite a dab hand with the wiring, not something I've really tampered too much with on the cars tbh if I can help it lol! Still you seems to building some serious bit of kit there, be cool to see it all on show.
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Re: 1994 Cavalier LSi C20NE (was C18NZ) Work-horse

Post by Robsey »

Thanks there fella...
It is very much like it was between 2010 and 2014.

So here are some old "incomplete" images.

Image

Image

Image

Historically it was the radio surround that never got finished.
But it is finished this time and ready to fit.

Sadly many of the images were lost a few months ago, but I will get round to updating all the links over the Christmas period when it goes quiet at home for a few days.
Mad busy between now and New Year, but will get there I am sure.
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Re: 1994 Cavalier LSi C20NE (was C18NZ) Work-horse

Post by James McGrath »

This really is amazing stuff Rob.
I didn't know how you get your head around it.
Considering you basically have to build a bespoke loom to fit the Cavalier.
Much admiration to you sir.
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