Vauxhall Senator

[cavalier1990]

Never did sound like a good idea to pour water into a box section!
My MK4 Astra sunroof has leaked water pipes down the screen pillar then exits between inner and outer wing which is where the bulkhead water goes.

Alan

I know a pretty piss poor design that, pouring water into a box section, what did they think was going to happen. I could imagine that vauxhall knew it would corrode the car sooner rather than later, but then that would be a conspiracy ahem!

Today I started playing about with my new spot welder trying to get nice tasty spot welds. Although first of all I had to set the thing up, no it's not just switching it on, there is a little more you need to do, like align the clamps, then the electrodes, then fine tune the 3 different settings for pulse or continous, thickness of metal, and the timing....and the clamp pressure. The clamp pressure is kina like adjusting your spark plug gaps, you need just the right clamp pressure for the workpiece, so you put 2 clamped plates inbetween the electrodes and then fine adjust with the adjuster on the handle.

Not easy when you consider the infinite amount of possibilites with the clamp/electrode adjustments, and the 3 settings it take a wee while to get things just right. I also found that occassionally the RCD in the garage would trip now and again, luckily the weld circuit, the lights and 13A sockets are on seperate circuits so only the welder 16A trips.

It's ok just now, but the tips wear out and I'll probably need to adjust them as they wear out.

I done a few scrap pieces of metal first, then took an old sill cut off from senator, cut that in half and then joined the lips together, the bits that would originally be where the door seal runs along the kick plate bit. Looked not too bad, I think I'm getting the hang of it, though it's a heavy bugger!

[3cav3]

The biggest problem I've found with the spot welder is ALL surfaces have to be beyond clean. Most of the time I resort to plug welding to be honest. Probably be great when all the metal work is brand new but with cars I find all the old stone chip, underseal etc plus zinc primming can upset the spot welder.

[cavalier1990]

The biggest problem I've found with the spot welder is ALL surfaces have to be beyond clean. Most of the time I resort to plug welding to be honest. Probably be great when all the metal work is brand new but with cars I find all the old stone chip, underseal etc plus zinc primming can upset the spot welder.

So true, it's hard to get some sections on an older car spotlessly clean, I guess I'm going to have to make sure the mounting section is as clean as possible. In saying that when it works it's a much neater cleaner weld.

[cavalier1990]

Not up to much with the senator just now, waiting on better weather, and better daylight to get on with it, but I do have my eye on an inner sill, reckoning I could do with one, actually 2 if I'm honest. The lips of which are used to join onto the outer sills, and the current join sections are a bit, not so much rusty, but just not in the best nick after all the previous welding I done to them to patch up the sills, plus then grinding off old repairs.

That'll be part of my xmas then!

[Robsey]

I am sure that a lot of us are in a similar situation.
A lot of car work goes on hold during the cold, dark, wet winter months.

Roll on the warmer, drier spring months.

[btcctroy]

well i'm ok 24/7

[cavalier1990]

Lol, I can never wish for a big enough shed!

[Robsey]

Lol, I can never wish for a big enough shed!

Are you talking about the van or Troy's unit.

[3cav3]

Not up to much with the senator just now, waiting on better weather, and better daylight to get on with it, but I do have my eye on an inner sill, reckoning I could do with one, actually 2 if I'm honest. The lips of which are used to join onto the outer sills, and the current join sections are a bit, not so much rusty, but just not in the best nick after all the previous welding I done to them to patch up the sills, plus then grinding off old repairs.

That'll be part of my xmas then!

Like you I have touched my Bedford for a while, partially on waiting for better weather, but also due to the missus insisting on a new kitchen which also entailed removing a solid block wall. I've had to do all the work myself due to the price of new units. What would be so wrong with keeping plates etc in cardboard boxes lol.

[btcctroy]

Lol, I can never wish for a big enough shed!

Are you talking about the van or Troy's unit.


[ Image ]

Wow look how much tidier it is before you come along
sorry to spoil your thread.

I think you will find that it is the Capri that is sat in that lovely clean patch.
All my cack apart from the cargo door is stashed inside, on top of or underneath the van - lol

[cavalier1990]

It's hibernate time, get very little done especially when it's tipping it down, as it always is here!
An "inside job" sounds a bit more appealing, even if it is a new Kitchen. I'm not too fussy where I keep my plates, I usually use the draining board lol now and again I'll store them away properly in the cupboard.

What else have I got I could do when it's crappy weather outside, i've got copious amounts of paperwork/accounts to get through, I don't know how many years i've put it off now, can't be that imprtant I suppose, it's just keeping it organised neat and tidy so I'm not thrashing about like a mad man anytime I need to find something!

Not up to much with the senator just now, waiting on better weather, and better daylight to get on with it, but I do have my eye on an inner sill, reckoning I could do with one, actually 2 if I'm honest. The lips of which are used to join onto the outer sills, and the current join sections are a bit, not so much rusty, but just not in the best nick after all the previous welding I done to them to patch up the sills, plus then grinding off old repairs.

That'll be part of my xmas then!

Like you I have touched my Bedford for a while, partially on waiting for better weather, but also due to the missus insisting on a new kitchen which also entailed removing a solid block wall. I've had to do all the work myself due to the price of new units. What would be so wrong with keeping plates etc in cardboard boxes lol.

[btcctroy]

The biggest problem I've found with the spot welder is ALL surfaces have to be beyond clean. Most of the time I resort to plug welding to be honest. Probably be great when all the metal work is brand new but with cars I find all the old stone chip, underseal etc plus zinc primming can upset the spot welder.

So true, it's hard to get some sections on an older car spotlessly clean, I guess I'm going to have to make sure the mounting section is as clean as possible. In saying that when it works it's a much neater cleaner weld.

going back to this, the problem is with these is pressure and amperage.
is yours a 2+2 spot welder
i have an 8000amp 3 phase machine, this is pneumatic and spots really well

[cavalier1990]

The biggest problem I've found with the spot welder is ALL surfaces have to be beyond clean. Most of the time I resort to plug welding to be honest. Probably be great when all the metal work is brand new but with cars I find all the old stone chip, underseal etc plus zinc primming can upset the spot welder.

So true, it's hard to get some sections on an older car spotlessly clean, I guess I'm going to have to make sure the mounting section is as clean as possible. In saying that when it works it's a much neater cleaner weld.

going back to this, the problem is with these is pressure and amperage.
is yours a 2+2 spot welder
i have an 8000amp 3 phase machine, this is pneumatic and spots really well

It's this one:

https://www.powertoolsdirect.com/clarke ... 4VEALw_wcB

I've kind of realised that the pressure and amps is critical with spotting, therefore really need to have both workpieces clean and as new metal as possible. Like any welder I suppose, but you can get away with it a wee bit with migs, not so much with this I think.

I drilled out the old sill spot welds, cut the top bit of the sill in half - the bit that is not rusty - and test spotted the 2 bits together, seemed quite a good strong clean weld. Sometimes the RCD in my garage would trip off, even with the now uprated feed from the main fuse box.

[btcctroy]

also keep the tips clean, 6mm to 8mm diameter will help
they do the job as i used to have one.
Resistance welding just need pure umph and thats it
mine is 32amp per phase.

[cavalier1990]

also keep the tips clean, 6mm to 8mm diameter will help
they do the job as i used to have one.
Resistance welding just need pure umph and thats it
mine is 32amp per phase.

Always appreciate any advice on this, so thanks. How do you keep the tips clean, I was wondering that, I'd seen a guy on youtube giving them a light file, not sure if that's too much at the moment.

How much pressure do you use for the clamping, I'd read you shouldn't use/rely on the pressure to "hold" the workpieces firmly together but enough that you have a slight drag when you pull the workpieces away from the tips.

[btcctroy]

When using the spot welder, make sure the pieces are clean.
use a soft pad on a grinder to keep the ends nice, keep them to a shallow dome. you can buy a sharpener but the cost is stupid.
use the spot welder on max power recommended for 2+2.
the pieces should pull together but not bruise/mark the steel.

a spot welder seems like the best thing in the world to buy but can be risky as you just dont know how good the welds are.

i always do a few plug welds for safety to insure its strong

Dont use your spot welder where there is 3 layers. it wont have the umph.

in the end the best thing i did was buy a 3 phase machine, you could do the same and convert to run single phase by what ever means.

Hope this helps

[cavalier1990]

I'm definitely going to try and only use it on new metal joins, so I can test weld with the same thickness (scrap bits) and make sure I know the setting/thickness of the work I'm doing.

I'm imagining like a wire wool pad for the grinder or drill would suffice to keep the tips clean.....

In saying all that I need to get much more used to it, and do more practice welds.

Thanks for the advice.

[cavalier1990]

Eventually got round to doing some more on the senny this week, and got some time off work in 2 weeks to do another spell on it.

As i've got the new sills and one inner sill, the N/S and with that side being slighly worse, including round the footplate area also needing redone, basically the whole shebang, I tackled the removal of the N/S inner sill. Grudgingly picking away the welds at the back that I had done previously onto the new axle location mount, luckily it wasn't too bad, I had to drill out the remaining spot welds along the sill and along the edge of the floor, and split open the sealant along the floor join.

Finally, the B post pillar in the middle only had 5 spot welds to remove the final bit holding that on to the sill, then just chisel a few splits along the front edge through the front floor as it was crusty anyway, then a few twists and turns and off it came.

Really at this point I wondered if I was going insane, after looking at the B pillar literally hanging from it's spot welds onto the roof, and literally the whole side of the car missing, I can see i've got a mountain of work ahead of me, I thought the same when I removed the whole rear wing, but now it looks much better that area, so that's given me a wee boost.

I could really be doing with both of these parts 8 & 9 in the diagram, the "Dash side" as it's known.

https://opel.7zap.com/en/car/v88/a/4/1-0/#8

I spotted one in Germany, but it's O/S and it's really the passenger side I need if push comes to shove but still good to get and it's only 39 of those Euro things. Enquiring about shipping just now.

So I need to measure up for how much Zinc plate I need to repair the floor at the front, the side lip of the floor that runs along the sill, this area actually wasn't too bad, but is now all chibbed up with drilling and cutting the spot welds. Also need to make up a new plate for the inner sill strengthener that is in the middle of the sill at the back, and aligns into the join of the outer and inner sill running up to the B post, and to the very back of the sill.

hopefully I can get a good chunk of this done in 2 weeks and start going from cutting and removing stuff to welding things back on.

I've got some images and videos and will get round to uploading them soon.

[Robsey]

That sounds very worrying.
The last thing you want is for no side at all on the car.
The A and C / D pillars will flex slightly, causing the roof to sag, which could seriously affect whether the doors will fit later.

I assume that you have a list of repair dimensions, so that you can brace the roof and body in the correct locations.

As you know - even how and where you support the chassis can have a big effect on body shape.
(Under jacking points or under the wheels themselves.

Still - this is not your first rodeo, so I am sure thst you know what you are doing.

I have stopped cutting panels from the van for this exact reason - to minimise creep of the body, before fresh metal can be welded in.

[cavalier1990]

Hi Robsey

Yeah it's had me sucking in through my teeth a bit, like when I removed the rear wing, no idea if I was going to be able to line it up again and all that. You know how things look fine you measure, check and measure about 20 times then when you actually zip it up, it ends up out of line.

I'd asked on the autobahnstormers about it and most replies said it should be fine as long as you keep plenty of tactfully placed supports underneath, and keep an eye on measurements. Some even mentioned welding bracing somewhere in the door frame but I'm really not sure where.

I do have to fit the front door inner panel with the hinges on it, so that's going to be a biggy, as well as trying to line the inner sill to the B post, there's also a strengthener section between the bottom of the B post, that goes to the back of the inner sill /axle mount plate (the bit where you jack it on the back)

Yeah it's a lot to get my teeth into, and I don't really know what I'm doing but will just use as much common sense and measure measure as much as I can and probably tack weld up before doing full welding to check everything. The big one will be making double sure the doors line up ok, as I can't really full confirm that till its all zipped up properly. Well I can, if I clamp the door hanger panel in place and tack weld it on, then just offer up the doors and see where they sit.

Cheers

Andy

[Robsey]

To be honest, I wouldn't have a clue either if it wasn't for Troy's expert guidance.
And I get the idea that a lot of that is self-tought through trial and error.

In my naive opinion, I suppose the best way is to measure the opposite side of the car at all angles.
Front to back of each door aperture.
Diagonal measures for triangulation.
And top to bottom of each aperture to ensure a consistent roof height.

It is a bit too late to measure internal or external body widths - lol.

I am sure it will all come good.

But yes - I would recommend braces to maintain the shape of the car, and possibly to help locate the B post when the time comes.
Possibly using the good side as a template for any B post mounting holes.

[3cav3]

Even when I braced and ratchet straps my van together, it still moved slightly when welding. Nearly got the doors back in line just got a slight bit of tweaking to do in one corner of the passenger side.

[cavalier1990]

I've basically got very little to work on on the N/S, all there is is the B post pillar, the floor edges, and some of the front floor. Not really the best bits to start for aligning. I can use measurements from the O/S so I suppose that will be my saving grace. Not had favourable weather to get much done on it recently, as I mentioned in 3cav3's thread weather has been pish here, plus I've been doing a big overhaul of the Omega, new belt, replaced all the cam cover gaskets, plugs, water pump, rear springs (which requires dropping the axle), front tie rods, a repaint of scabby paint & some rust spots on the front crossmember, and inner wing; and replacement of the air-con condenser and dryer/filter.

[cavalier1990]

So managed to get a bit of time on the senny this week, kind of dreading to see it as I know how much work I need to do, but eased myself back into it yesterday. The whole left front wheelwell/door frame post/inner sill bit is going to be one of those fiddly bits but I am concentrating on getting any remaining rusty bits off, while trying to leave as neat a hole as possible to fill. I can't stand cutting wee patches out, rather just remove the whole sectiob and replace. With the front floor it's bitty, the usual edge of the floor as it makes it's way up the inner wing area is crusty and has previous repair, as well as the chassis leg where the crossmember section from inner sill to chassis leg crosses the front floor, requires renewal, lucky I have this brand new part.

The chassis leg is crusty and crumbling as it runs from it's lowest section on it's run upwards about 8 inches (I done the hammer test!). The back of the leg doesn't seem as bad, so I'm going to cut the outside side off of it to see how far it goes inside.

Once I get that section sorted, I can then start building out towards the inner sill section, and start preping and aligning to get the new inner sill on. This welds to the B post, to the inner strengthener plate at the front, and to the rear floor and jacking plate at the back.

Keeping in mind it needs aligning back in place but I have my thatcham book now for door pillar measurements. I can use this to see if the drivers side measurements are the same as the carlton. I think they should be as I'm sure the doors are the same.

Then there's the repair I'll need to make to the dash side panel and the inner wing, bits of crust there. I can't get the repair panel for the N/S so will have to fashion something up. Can't wait till I see this section repaired up.

Amazing that it passed it's last MOT!

[3cav3]

I#m convinced that theres a lot of cars that have got an mot thanks to either a blind or over friendly mot inspector.