My VERY RUSTY VW T25 Camper Van Project

[Robsey]

With all the fun and frolics that the Cavalier and Vectra-C throw at me,

I thought that I would post up my other project...
Much to Andrei's bitter displeasure it is a German rot box.

First some history..
In about 2010, the wife's dad died suddenly in Germany whilst visiting an old friend from his army days.

My wife was very close and had the same earthy attitude as her dad - so to bring this thread into context.

The camper van was owned by her dad, but had fallen into dis-repair when it blew a valve seat in 1990. This was the second major engine failure, and so he chose to just let the van sit and rot.

In May 2011, with the prospect of the van being towed away to the scrapper, a tearful mother-in-law asked if I would save the van.

In all honesty, the van was totally buggered, but the emotional emphasis placed on the van by the wife and her mum meant that I was compelled to give it a go.

For a few years, I pulled bits off the van and bought some spares for the rebuild.

Then in 2014 / 15 the emphasis moved on to fixing the Cavalier after an epic mot failure.

Now roll the clock forward to today...
It has been agreed that I would resume work on the van this year.
Oddly the wife's mum has lost her love for the van and simply wants shut of it off her drive. To this end the van is now the wife's, which gives her something of her dad's to cling onto.

To be honest, getting shut is all that it is good for as the past few years have really spurred the rust monster on.

I could ask Troy to do the welding, but I feel that I really should do it myself and save a few quid.
I suspect £1000 in panels and as much as 3 times that in labour.

As with the Cavalier, this is not a cost effective rebuild.

So here is the pictures from today.
Jobs included putting the van on 4 dollies, so that I can move it around to access all panels.

Most of the cab is stripped bare ready for cutting and repairing.

The load area is being used as a junk yard / storage shed by her mum.

So prepare for the rust-fest.












You get the idea - ha ha

But as Troy will say - anything can be repaired.. Gulp!!
Only time will tell - let's hope I don't make it any worse.

[Robsey]

And this is something like how it should look when finished.





As you can see -
It is a VW Transporter "Type 2", but is the third incarnation - The T3, but strangely referred to as the T25 in the UK.
Often called a wedgey or a brick, as the body is now more boxy and angular unlike its much more curved predecessors.

Not as popular as the T1 denoted by the centre windscreen spar and therefore called a splitty,
And also not as popular as the T2 or "bay window"

Strangely modern cars are almost as big as these old vans.

[Robsey]

For the technical types who like to know this kind of stuff...

Our van was made in October 1982 and was fitted with a 1900cc flat four wasser-boxer. One of the very first water cooled boxer engines that replaced the air cooled units used in almost all VWs and many Porsches upto the early 80's.

It was rated at about 50bhp and had a Solex 34 pict-4 carburettor.
Denoted as a DF set up.

In 2012, I bought a 1987 model 2.1 litre flat four wasserboxer engine with Bosch Digi-Jet fuel injection and separate electronic ignition. Denoted as a DJ set up, the van will now be rated at 112 bhp.

Further plans are to fit Corsa-C electric power steering, and fully uprated and updated electrics.

Would you expect me to keep the very basic 80s electrics... nope!!

[Mk3alan]

Quite a project - you won't get bored!
Are they mainly outer panel affected? If the underneath is reasonably sound that would help considerably.
I restored my Morris over a period of many years, tackled it in stages - got fed up so put it on pause, then got going again.
As Dave Allen would say - may your God go with you!

Alan

[Robsey]

Sadly on the whole, it is mainly the underneath that is affected.

The front looks bad because I cut the lower panel off about 4 years ago due to pitting. In hindsight, I should have just cleaned and rust-treated it.

All the off-side window frames are scabby and I think all the rubber seals have shrunk allowing light to be seen in one bottom corner of one side window and the front windscreen.
Corrosion is then all the sills (inner and outer), rear off side bottom panel,
the driver's footwell and both front door steps.
All lower seams are a known weak spot too.

Inside apart from some minor surface rusting in patches the panels and roof are quite solid.

The mechanicals - strip and rebuild the flat 4 boxer, and sort out the fuel injection wiring.

There is the suspension all round that has been sat for 28 years, so all joint rubbers are cracked and all joint bolts etc are coated in rust or gunk.

All the heating and cooling pipework will need plumbing in.

A full rewire, as 30 year old wiring is either very worn out or simply not to modern standards.
This will include fitting the most basic stuff like a hand brake light, which is not fitted on this glorified builder's van.
And who knows if any of the motors (wipers, washers and radiator fan) will still work after all this time.

For me the only fun bit will be to fit a whole new interior. and a side access ramp for the wife's wheelchair.

This is very much a blank canvas, which I hope to complete as close to "original looking" as possible, but with lots of subtle upgrades and improvements inside to improve comfort, convenience and reliability

So yes - a huge amount of work. I am not kidding myself into thinking it will be a two minute thing.
At the moment I am more than a little overwhelmed by the work ahead.

I just need to break it down into small bite size chunks
Hundreds of them

I just need to shake off this spell of bad luck that has been affecting everything else, and chewing into the finances pot. Otherwise there will be no money left to work on the van - maybe a sign from above!!

[iangsi]

All I can say is good luck with it & I look forward to seeing your progress. I know the V dub scene is huge so there should be plenty of spares & helpful advice out there.

[Mk3alan]

Sounds like one hell of a project, should be ok for spares as I understand it. Not sure if I would tackle anything like that anymore - not got enough years left!
Wish you luck.

Alan

[Robsey]

Spares are stupidly expensive, which is weird because the T3 / T25 is not one of the fashionable vans to have.

An A-Pillar is £295 on it's own, and due to some very bad corrosion I will need both sides.
A rear hatch door, if one can be found is about £600.
And the sills are about £300 each as pre-made inner and outer pairs by Klokkerholme.

Without the rear hatch, I am easily expecting to blow well over £1000 on parels.

Being east of Manchester, I am close to two northern suppliers - Schofields of Glossop and Brickwerks in Holmefirth

Just Kampers?... I hear a lot of less than pleasant comments about their products.
And there is a modern day "Dick Turpin" (as someone put it on my main WIP) I will not be seeking any parts from him.

All good fun.

[iangsi]

Spares are stupidly expensive, which is weird because the T3 / T25 is not one of the fashionable vans to have.

That's the trouble with popularity people whack the prices up because they know they will get it.

[Robsey]

They haven't met Rob the skin-flint yet.

But that is the whole point - the van isn't popular or sought after.
It isn't pretty and it doesn't nod back to the hippy era.

It begs for a makeover with a beauty-stick,
but my wife loves it, or to be more exact, she loves the fact it was her dad's.

So hopefully a nice summer, suitable for working outdoors on a drive... fingers crossed.

[cavalier1990]

I remember I went to look at a friend's old camper van, about a P plate with a view to doing some welding on it. I crawled out from underneath and told them it's only good for parts as the whole underside was going, or a very very keen welder and a lot of dosh might save it. I think someone they know does these and took it for spares.

Always kind of liked these as well, and I am quite sure all the panels to repair are still available from aftermarket due to the huge popularity of them.

[Robsey]

Nowhere near as popular as it's predecessors nor its successors.

T3 is a bit of an odd ball.

About 95% of panels are available, although most suppliers ask silly money for even the most basic parts.
A decent instrument panel will set you back £200 second hand.

Panels that are not available are tail-gates, inner sills and the cab floor.

As for welding - due to the simple shape and construction, it should be a lot quicker and easier to sort, despite the amount of tin-worm present.

Sadly, VW only managed to sort the corrosion issues in the last two years of production (90 to 92).

With ours being an '82, it has very poor corrosion issues.
Although being stood for 28 years does not help.

Pushing the van 18 inches to the right to allow me to remove the sheet-steel dash panel was the most it had moved in a very long time.
This was only achieved by jacking it onto dollies.

At present the limiting factors are a lack of premises and a load area full of bric-a-brac.

[cavalier1990]

Nowhere near as popular as it's predecessors nor its successors.

T3 is a bit of an odd ball.

About 95% of panels are available, although most suppliers ask silly money for even the most basic parts.
A decent instrument panel will set you back £200 second hand.

Panels that are not available are tail-gates, inner sills and the cab floor.

As for welding - due to the simple shape and construction, it should be a lot quicker and easier to sort, despite the amount of tin-worm present.

Sadly, VW only managed to sort the corrosion issues in the last two years of production (90 to 92).

With ours being an '82, it has very poor corrosion issues.
Although being stood for 28 years does not help.

Pushing the van 18 inches to the right to allow me to remove the sheet-steel dash panel was the most it had moved in a very long time.
This was only achieved by jacking it onto dollies.

At present the limiting factors are a lack of premises and a load area full of bric-a-brac.

The simple construction and van-style box sections should make it easier to fabricate panels for it. I suppose it's yet another case of supply and demand with these part boys, they jack up the prices due to the "status" of the vehicle and availability of the panels so the price usually goes one way only - up!

You really should invest in a wee MIG robsey, I think the Clark 140 (145, 150 whatever it is) is a good starting point for the hobby and home mechanic welder. Easy as pie once you get the hang of it. You'd be round that van in a couple of weeks!

[Robsey]

I priced up the panels that are likely to be required for the restoration.
All parts are made and supplied locally (about 5 miles away).

Allowing for some small bits, I calculated about 33 pieces. Some very major panels.
A total cost came to £2049 all in, with free courier delivery or collection by the buyer.
Again - that is purely exterior panels, sills and underside jacking points / chassis rails.

There are two VW original parts available at £400 and £565 each... wow, thank goodness that I don't need those.

All parts available and in stock... I would probably need a whole courier van to myself due to the amount of parts.

I can see that parts and panels will easily hit the £5000 mark again.
So first job, is to strip out the suspension for stripping, treating and powder coating.

What concerns me is that one bush is welded in place on one of the wishbones on each side. (there are upper and lower wishbones on the van). So this will need the weld grinding off, to remove the old bush, then weld the new bush in.
what a faff!!

All parts are simpler in layout, but MUCH bigger and cumbersome to work with.
I nearly killed my 2 ton trolley jack lifting the van high enough to scooch in the dollies.

Many parts are attached using good old 70s and 80s methods.. Metric hex head bolts and nuts and self tappers.
The interior is very simple / sparse, so no real biggy to deal with.

Not much in the way of electrics.. no heated rear window, no electric windows, no central locking, no rear wash / wiper, no intermittent front wiper (from the factory), no hand brake light and not even a clock or radio.
It does have servo-assisted brakes and a hydraulic clutch, but of course no power steering.

Drive shafts are also easy as they simply un-bolt, none of this drifting out of the differential flange milarkey.

[cavalier1990]

I priced up the panels that are likely to be required for the restoration.
All parts are made and supplied locally (about 5 miles away).

Allowing for some small bits, I calculated about 33 pieces. Some very major panels.
A total cost came to £2049 all in, with free courier delivery or collection by the buyer.
Again - that is purely exterior panels, sills and underside jacking points / chassis rails.

There are two VW original parts available at £400 and £565 each... wow, thank goodness that I don't need those.

All parts available and in stock... I would probably need a whole courier van to myself due to the amount of parts.

I can see that parts and panels will easily hit the £5000 mark again.
So first job, is to strip out the suspension for stripping, treating and powder coating.

What concerns me is that one bush is welded in place on one of the wishbones on each side. (there are upper and lower wishbones on the van). So this will need the weld grinding off, to remove the old bush, then weld the new bush in.
what a faff!!

All parts are simpler in layout, but MUCH bigger and cumbersome to work with.
I nearly killed my 2 ton trolley jack lifting the van high enough to scooch in the dollies.

Many parts are attached using good old 70s and 80s methods.. Metric hex head bolts and nuts and self tappers.
The interior is very simple / sparse, so no real biggy to deal with.

Not much in the way of electrics.. no heated rear window, no electric windows, no central locking, no rear wash / wiper, no intermittent front wiper (from the factory), no hand brake light and not even a clock or radio.
It does have servo-assisted brakes and a hydraulic clutch, but of course no power steering.

Drive shafts are also easy as they simply un-bolt, none of this drifting out of the differential flange milarkey.

That cost aint too bad if you do it over time, I think I've easily spent that, or more, on 2 or 3 of my cars just buying simple spares over the last year. I also didn't realise it was that heavy, do you know the actual weight?

[ilovedmymantas]

I don't envy your momentous task - anything is do-able but it's always more difficult when it's someone else's passion.
You can't put a price on nostalgia though , that's just the way it is....

[Robsey]

I have started buying bits for the van.
I have been collecting the odd bit here and there for years, but I have now pulled my finger out.
One thing I didn't realise was the problems that I would face trying to get it insured.

Because the 1983 van is so basic and lacks all forms of technology, it will be necessary to update a lot of stuff.
Sadly a lot of this updating will be viewed as modifications, and insurers do not like modifications.
The thought of fitting a different but standard engine resulted in all insurance companies refusing to provide cover.

I have heard of one person who's insurance was voided by the insurer because he removed a seat from the rear of his van... how silly is that.

I could not dare to advise them about my plan to fit Corsa-C electric power assisted steering.
They would break out into a cold sweat.

Looks like it is time to look into specialist insurance companies.

[blaine]

Can one of the companies that specialise in modified vehicles not help?

Thinking like Greenlight, Adrian Flux, Chris Knott, etc?

[Robsey]

I am in the process of liaising with Chris Knott, as I qualify for forum members' discount from Vectra-C.com.

Strange thing is the modifications are only to make the van easier to drive and reduce emissions.

To be honest, a crate on wheels is never going to be a pimp-mobile or a santa-pod track car.

I will try the others in due course, if I cannot get cover at a fair price.

[blaine]

I am in the process of liaising with Chris Knott, as I qualify for forum members' discount from Vectra-C.com.

Strange thing is the modifications are only to make the van easier to drive and reduce emissions.

To be honest, a crate on wheels is never going to be a pimp-mobile or a santa-pod track car.

I will try the others in due course, if I cannot get cover at a fair price.

I think a lot of insurance companies just assume that modifications are for those wanting to increase performance, not safety.

[Robsey]

The floor next to my desk at work is starting look amazingly like it did two years ago when I had the Cavalier being restored.

Boxes of parts slowly piling up.
They are being stored until the van has reached a stage where I can start fitting parts rather than stripping out or cutting off bits.
Parts in the office mainly comprise electrical looms, lighting and some service items / sensors.

[cavalier1990]

The floor next to my desk at work is starting look amazingly like it did two years ago when I had the Cavalier being restored.

Boxes of parts slowly piling up.
They are being stored until the van has reached a stage where I can start fitting parts rather than stripping out or cutting off bits.
Parts in the office mainly comprise electrical looms, lighting and some service items / sensors.

Nothing like being surrounded by car parts wondering where it's going to end! I've got most of my stuff up the loft, wondering if my ceiling going to collapse soon!

[Robsey]

"It will end in tears"!!!

Only joking, but it is a mammoth job.

Plan is to keep a lot of the look of the original exterior, and for the most part cab interior.

I haven't thought where the body panels can be stored just yet.
It won't be at work.
A big van means big panels.

[blaine]

"It will end in tears"!!!

Only joking, but it is a mammoth job.

Plan is to keep a lot of the look of the original exterior, and for the most part cab interior.

I haven't thought where the body panels can be stored just yet.
It won't be at work.
A big van means big panels.

Sure you can get somewhere to put them. Looking forward to seeing more progress with this one

[cavalier1990]

"It will end in tears"!!!

Only joking, but it is a mammoth job.

Plan is to keep a lot of the look of the original exterior, and for the most part cab interior.

I haven't thought where the body panels can be stored just yet.
It won't be at work.
A big van means big panels.

Can you not just store them in the tail of the truck or have you got stuff in there already? I know I would as I am a hoarder!