Michelins - a "hard" lesson

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Telegram Sam
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Michelins - a "hard" lesson

Post by Telegram Sam »

I've always held the view that viewed in the long run it's sensible to invest in top quality tyres rather than economize short term with cheapies. Now I'm questioning that.
My SRi gets used for pleasure runs mainly so of the order of 3 - 5 K miles p.a. only. Michelin Energy all round for maximum mileage / economy after I was told that these were not made so rock hard as in the past. Wear on the rear tyres is therefore minimal.
Noticed today a thin wavy "groove" all the way round the outer perimeter / the lip of the nearside rear. So I checked with the tyre man. Apparently Michelins are noted for "ageing" if subjected to low mileage, and cracks such as these are the result of the hardness of the rubber coupled with the car standing idle for significantly longer than a high mileage car. He reckoned that the fault was "mainly cosmetic - depending on the attitude of the MOT inspector". However the latter was also conveniently on tap this morning and confirmed (you guessed) that the groove would fail the car even though there were oodles of tread left.
So I'm faced with the prospect of ditching a quality Michelin with I suspect K's of mileage left in it by next month's MOT and substituting something less brittle. And this could be repeated with the other 3 tyres in due course ...
Not something you read about in tyre write ups and test reports. Where / which is the best source of advice on choosing from the latest alternative tyres on the market?
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Re: Michelins - a "hard" lesson

Post by Envoy CDX »

Sounds to me like its under or over inflated more than anything.
Could be oddly tracked too
Tyres like anything do occasionally have quality defects. I've known people buy brand new tyres and 2 days later have to have them replaced because the sidewall has ballooned on with an egg like shape.

I've been running Uniroyals for 2-3years now, and I've never had an issue with them so if you're looking for something to switch to, try them. About £55-60 a corner fitted if you hunt about.

My last set cost me about £161 but they were fitted by myself using a friends garage (can't offer that same luxury though, sorry).
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Re: Michelins - a "hard" lesson

Post by Telegram Sam »

The have definitely not been under/over-pumped unless I am incapable of reading a tyre gauge regularly (not impossible), no ballooning visible, and what the tyre man said on inspection came over as a credible explanation. Whether or not I've got a claim on Michelin ... I've got the same tyre all round.
Top of the last Which tyre test are the Continental PremiumContact and Dunlop SP Sport FastResponse. The only Uniroyal they list is the "Rainexpert" which as you'd expect scores with wet grip but at the expense of wear. You pays your money ..
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Re: Michelins - a "hard" lesson

Post by Envoy CDX »

Telegram Sam wrote:The have definitely not been under/over-pumped unless I am incapable of reading a tyre gauge regularly (not impossible), no ballooning visible, and what the tyre man said on inspection came over as a credible explanation. Whether or not I've got a claim on Michelin ... I've got the same tyre all round.
Top of the last Which tyre test are the Continental PremiumContact and Dunlop SP Sport FastResponse. The only Uniroyal they list is the "Rainexpert" which as you'd expect scores with wet grip but at the expense of wear. You pays your money ..
Been running the same set of Uniroyal RainExperts for about a year and getting on for 18,000 miles (ish) and they are just getting down to a point where I need to think about replacing them. Like you said, you pays your money.

I wasn't point a finger saying you're incapable of reading a tyre gauge (seriously, hop off that high horse Iain). However, experience has taught me that not all tyre gauges are accurate - tried 3 one after the other and had an average difference of 5 psi (funnily the michellin one being the worst). It's all swings and roundabouts really. You find something you like and stick to it.

Given our general climate I'll be sticking with my RainExperts, good for the money and provide good returns in terms of grip, and wear.
As the car isn't used for a high mileage run around, I would consider looking into rotating your wheels so they aren't sitting on the same bit of tyre too.

If it's only one tyre - why change all 4? Understand if you swap a pair over but all 4 is a bit extreme.

G.
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Re: Michelins - a "hard" lesson

Post by Telegram Sam »

No intention to change more than 1 tyre (unless the same deterioration becomes visible on the others). Which raises the question: if brand-wise there is an odd man out is there a case to put it on the front or the back?

My capabilities with a tyre gauge were a lol. Actually I've got more than one, digital, analogue dial and cylinder (each one gets lost in rotation) and they more or less agree. Not so of course the one attached to the footpump
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Re: Michelins - a "hard" lesson

Post by Envoy CDX »

Telegram Sam wrote:No intention to change more than 1 tyre (unless the same deterioration becomes visible on the others). Which raises the question: if brand-wise there is an odd man out is there a case to put it on the front or the back?

My capabilities with a tyre gauge were a lol. Actually I've got more than one, digital, analogue dial and cylinder (each one gets lost in rotation) and they more or less agree. Not so of course the one attached to the footpump
Ah, mis-read your first post.
I thought you'd said you were replacing them all.

I don't think it matters front or rear. As long as the rotational size matches should be fine.
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Re: Michelins - a "hard" lesson

Post by btcctroy »

That is why I use maxxis tyres. They guarantee the mileage even if damaged.
Some people over concern thereselves with tyres.
Makes no dam difference
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Re: Michelins - a "hard" lesson

Post by iangsi »

I've found Pirelli's, Dunlops & my latest Toyo's all do the same, small cracks & side wall crazing I think it's the UV light that does them in. Some tyre cleaner / back to black stuff helps to slow it down a bit. Not had any fail the MOT on it though.
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Re: Michelins - a "hard" lesson

Post by Telegram Sam »

This is a thin wavy groove all the way round the outside edge / lip rather than just the odd crack. And my powers of chatting up the MOT man ain't as good as yours (he's normally very accommodating to be fair). And where the car spends most of its time is hardly the North East's Riviera UV-wise unless I hadn't noticed it. I could try bodging it with back to black but I'd be wasting my time. And why just the one tyre showing this (so far)?
I'll try to put a claim on Michelin while getting a replacement Continental or Dunlop or something reputable pre next month's MOT. I have to confess maxxis is a new one on me (never heard of them).
(I once replaced the tyres on my dad's old Honda with cheap imports - and only just survived the first roundabout to tell the tale. Got my money back in the end, after a struggle. Learned the hard way)
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Re: Michelins - a "hard" lesson

Post by Super89 »

I've just started using Goodyear EfficientGrip Performance in 185/60 R14

(Fuel Eff.: C Wet Grip: A NoiseClass: 1 Noise: 67dB)

£41 each from CAMSKILL.

Seem very good upto now.
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Re: Michelins - a "hard" lesson

Post by ilovedmymantas »

Telegram Sam wrote:The have definitely not been under/over-pumped unless I am incapable of reading a tyre gauge regularly (not impossible), no ballooning visible, and what the tyre man said on inspection came over as a credible explanation. Whether or not I've got a claim on Michelin ... I've got the same tyre all round.
Top of the last Which tyre test are the Continental PremiumContact and Dunlop SP Sport FastResponse. The only Uniroyal they list is the "Rainexpert" which as you'd expect scores with wet grip but at the expense of wear. You pays your money ..
Hi Iain, when were the tyres fitted ? Your claim might not be against Michelin, it may depend on the date stamp on your tyre http://www.simplemotoring.co.uk/tyre-ma ... VEcxmctG70
A tyre should last at least 4 years : http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/sa ... d-age.html
My thoughts are, go by recommendations and forget the erroneous claimed performance. (who gives a damn about how noisy a tyre is, it's still quieter than many exhausts). Just look at claimed mpg/emissions on new cars!
You have a nice sporty car that does low mileage, why buy tyres that are expensive and designed for modern, bland 1 litre euro-approved cars ?
I'm with Envoy CDX on the rainexperts. I bought 2 for my last car (ecotec sri) , put them on the front and was so impressed, 3 weeks later I replaced the back 2. (5 & 6mm tread left). Excellent wet grip, no aquaplaning at all and not too sloppy in the dry, ( I used to like racing from the lights on a 2-into-1 road- as in I've waited 20 minutes in the correct lane and you've come up the outside lane in 5 minutes ).
CDX has cured that :lol:
2 years + and loads of tread, 15000 miles+.
I have already replaced two and put them on the front, the rears will follow when needed or when I get a close ratio gearbox, whichever comes first.
I buy online at one of the companies that has fitting at one of your local places, but at lower prices. I bought two in January at £50.15 each, fitted locally.

Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with any tyre manufacturers or bestbuy :lol:

-matt
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Re: Michelins - a "hard" lesson

Post by Telegram Sam »

I got the sizes wrong before. Seems that the best for my 195's are the Goodyear Efficient Grips so that's what I've asked the tyre man to come up with. They seem to have good wet performance though perhaps not quite as good as the Uniroyals.
That said I don't kid myself that whatever the choice I'm going to notice any difference in actual use*** (wear possibly excepted) but you have to make a choice so might as well go for whatever the test people have found best. As far as "why buy tyres that are expensive and designed for modern, bland 1 litre euro-approved cars ?" is concerned my experience with the Honda (and later with my used BMW 320 bought and re-tyred from a dealer in Darlington) has convinced me to avoid the cheapies at all cost and pay the few ££ extra for something that's got a respectable track record.
Claim on Michelin: This will be an interesting test case! I will post up how I fare net once all the dust has settled.

*** Things will change when I get my rally-style semi-automatic replacement gearbox for the F16 as per Humbucker's Corsa video. I am open to any offers ..
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Re: Michelins - a "hard" lesson

Post by James McGrath »

I have to say that the Michelins on my LS are beginning to crack a little around the edges.

However they have served well for many miles and the front pair are due to be replaced anyway. I think they must have been on there for about 8 years.
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Re: Michelins - a "hard" lesson

Post by Telegram Sam »

Always a snag: I've just learned that hardly any of the reputable tyre manufacturers still offers an R14 in 195/65, which is what I've got, only R15's. To change over to R15's would I suspect have loads of mechanical knock-on consequences. Has anyone else had this problem (recently) and did you find a magic solution???

PS I've just "found" Super89's Camskill's site (tks!) which might provide a lifeline. How do you rank the performance categories?
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Re: Michelins - a "hard" lesson

Post by iangsi »

Telegram Sam wrote:Always a snag: I've just learned that hardly any of the reputable tyre manufacturers still offers an R14 in 195/65, which is what I've got, only R15's. To change over to R15's would I suspect have loads of mechanical knock-on consequences. Has anyone else had this problem (recently) and did you find a magic solution???

PS I've just "found" Super89's Camskill's site (tks!) which might provide a lifeline. How do you rank the performance categories?

What size tyres are you using ? I don't think 195 65 R14 is a standard size Vauxhall fitted from the factory more like 195 60 R14
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Re: Michelins - a "hard" lesson

Post by Telegram Sam »

It said 65 on the tin last night but I'll re-check when I get home. In the interim I've "found" the Uniroyal Rainexpert on CAMSKILL so if I get it fitted by the man in Gateshead then everyone incl Envoy G will be happy and the world will be a better place!
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Re: Michelins - a "hard" lesson

Post by James McGrath »

I've had a hell of a time getting 195 60 R14 tyres as no one makes them anymore it seems.

I did eventually find a full set of Michelins though. It just takes allot of time and patience trawling through the internet to find them.
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Re: Michelins - a "hard" lesson

Post by thegriffin »

I've had no problem getting 195/60 14.
I was offered several different brands. They fit
some BMWs apparently.
I always buy Runway Enduros on my Cavalier,Astra
and Vectra.
They last for ages and are reasonably priced.
Have tried premium brands in the past & have been
disappointed with them.
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Re: Michelins - a "hard" lesson

Post by ilovedmymantas »

iangsi wrote:
Telegram Sam wrote:Always a snag: I've just learned that hardly any of the reputable tyre manufacturers still offers an R14 in 195/65, which is what I've got, only R15's. To change over to R15's would I suspect have loads of mechanical knock-on consequences. Has anyone else had this problem (recently) and did you find a magic solution???

PS I've just "found" Super89's Camskill's site (tks!) which might provide a lifeline. How do you rank the performance categories?

What size tyres are you using ? I don't think 195 65 R14 is a standard size Vauxhall fitted from the factory more like 195 60 R14
Agreed, It was always 195 60 14's on my sri. 60 profile's correct for the 14" rims. H rating is fast enough - Big Brother'll make sure you never get near the limit !
" It's not rust. It's age-related patina " ;)

1980 vauxhall cavalier MK1 1.6L, 1982 opel manta berlinetta 1.8s, 1985 opel manta 2.0 gte, 1990 cavalier 2.0 gl ,1994 cavalier sri x20xev

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Re: Michelins - a "hard" lesson

Post by Telegram Sam »

Rregret to say that you are right and I'm wrong - they are "60's" even if a man came round late last night and changed the markings. Could have been an embarrassing mistake. Luckily CAMSKILL's have this size also though different selection. The fact that Michelins aren't there isn't now going to cause me any lack of sleep.
I've had no problem getting 195/60 14. I was offered several different brands. They fit some BMWs apparently
Where did you get them from? I have to allow for the probability that in future it's going to get increasingly difficult to get (a choice of) premium 195/60/14's :( and each source will become more valuable.
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Re: Michelins - a "hard" lesson

Post by ilovedmymantas »

I've used http://www.bestbuytyres.co.uk/ for the past 5 years. They still have an ok selection in your size. Hankook might suit your requirements though I don't know how they stand up to uv/weather for cracking. I'm sticking with the rainexperts, I've used them for several years with no issues
" It's not rust. It's age-related patina " ;)

1980 vauxhall cavalier MK1 1.6L, 1982 opel manta berlinetta 1.8s, 1985 opel manta 2.0 gte, 1990 cavalier 2.0 gl ,1994 cavalier sri x20xev

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Re: Michelins - a "hard" lesson

Post by Telegram Sam »

That's certainly worth bookmarking though my "nearest" centre is 100 miles away and it looks like Super89's CamsKill are cheaper even without taking the distance into account.

[Pity about the max H rating - I suppose I'll just have to invest in an HGV governer :( ]
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Re: Michelins - a "hard" lesson

Post by ilovedmymantas »

Telegram Sam wrote:That's certainly worth bookmarking though my "nearest" centre is 100 miles away and it looks like Super89's CamsKill are cheaper even without taking the distance into account.

[Pity about the max H rating - I suppose I'll just have to invest in an HGV governer :( ]
Camskill's do look very cheap but bear in mind you still have a delivered price of £45.63(rainexpert, as example only) each plus new valves & fitting to add on. Unless you're related, I don't foresee many places fitting tyres bought elsewhere cheap, or free :lol: -might be an idea finding out how much valve & fitting will cost you, to do a balanced search ?
I take your point about distance & can see it wouldn't be practical for you, it was only a 50 mile round trip for me but compared to other online & local best fitted prices I saved £12 a tyre (bought 2), I spent less on petrol than I saved & got a nice wee run out of it :D .
Forgive my ignorance, I don't understand the hgv governor comment, can you enlighten me please? (it's always good to learn!)
" It's not rust. It's age-related patina " ;)

1980 vauxhall cavalier MK1 1.6L, 1982 opel manta berlinetta 1.8s, 1985 opel manta 2.0 gte, 1990 cavalier 2.0 gl ,1994 cavalier sri x20xev

-1995 cdx x20xev

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Re: Michelins - a "hard" lesson

Post by humbucker »

I buy all my tyres from these guys (massive savings to be had, and they'll deliver the tyres to you or your nearest independent tyre fitter):

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=8293&p=83464
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Re: Michelins - a "hard" lesson

Post by Telegram Sam »

Tyre Wizard are also definitely worth bookmarking. Interesting to see that contrary to my assumptions of what was still in limited supply in 195/60/14's their selection is different and includes a Michelin (which I would now avoid). At first glance they look to be a bit more expensive than Super89's CAMSKILL but the difference spread over ... K miles doesn't amount to much. I've opted for the latter's Continental Premium which they sourcing direct from Continental in Germany. In the end it could be a matter of choice / selection as much as marginal differences in ££'s.

Interestingly for me is that in the opinion of CAMSKILL the 195/60/14's are NOT an endangered species and there is no need therefore for me to put in stockpiles of these in order to carry me through till the faithful SRi finally packs it in. I was going to post a query about the effects of converting to R15 wheels but this is now hopefully not necessary.

I'll post up for info what the fitter in Gateshead charges me for doing the job, valves and balancing etc but I will be relying on him to put in a claim on Michelin for the dud that they supplied me with a year ago.
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