Repairing Air Conditioning Pipes

[Kinky John]

Hello all,

Please see The Lounge forum for my introduction and hello, but hello once again to you all, I'm a long time lurker and first time poster.

I'm trying to get the Air Conditioning back into service on a 1995 Cavalier V6 CDX. I've had the car 10 years and it has never worked. When I first got the car I took it for a regas and a bit of a look over and as soon as it was connected to the machine, it shot a huge jet of high pressure refrigerant into the face and eyes of the fellow who was doing it because when he switched the machine on he happened to have his hands on the slam panel and be looking down into the area at the front of the engine.

After I'd sufficiently recovered my composure, changed my now soaking wet panties etc, and after he'd recovered from the direct blast of R134a gas to the face, he quickly came to the conclusion that there was a leaking air con pipe. I tended to agree with his diagnosis on this one. It's the one that runs along the front of the car, at the bottom of the radiator, left to right as you look down on it, from the compressor to condenser.

Now I know that these pipes are not available any more from Vauxhall, and I have checked just in case, because sometimes you never know.

So my questions are:

1) Has anyone ever had any experience in repairing air conditioning pipe themselves? If so how did you do it?

2) I have come across Splice Kits which give you a method to cut out the faulty section and rejoin the 2 ends together, has any body ever used these with success?

3) Are there any places/companies that offer repair of aircon pipes? I can imagine that due to the filthy, thankless, awkward task of repairing old vehicle aircon pipes ,that no one could make a living out of doing this.

4) Has anyone come across places/companies that will make up new aircon pipe if given the original? Obviously, this would be the preferred solution.

I have done a Google search for 3 and 4, not an exhaustive one yet, but at the moment I've not found anywhere, though i will keep searching.

The problem is not helped by the fact that this pipe connects to the compressor with a block type union and actually the block also joins together another aircon pipe that comes in at 90 degrees from along the offside sub-frame and then snakes off behind the engine and then 90 degrees again along the bulkhead. Where these 2 pipes are joined at the block union on the compressor, its either a cast or welded item, you can't separate the pipes at the point they join the block. The pipes do have large nut unions at 3 or 4 locations that do allow the whole pipe circuit to be split apart, but getting to them is horrible - do-able but horrible.

To be honest i can imagine everyone already thinking why bother? And indeed I've looked at this probably a dozen times in the last 10 years and come to the same conclusion. But the thing is, i really like aircon, and i really want it to work. I've decided that during the coming summer months i would now be prepared to dismantle it all and take on the horrific job that it must be if i knew it was possible to repair or renew the pipes.

So i wondered if anyone else out there has been through this and what advice they would offer? If i get a number of people replying saying they've tried and it didn't work, or you can't repair the pipe, or get any new pipe made, then i will forget this once and for all.

Obviously, it goes without saying that with enough money anything can be done, so if it can be done but its going to cost £800 for example, then I'm going to have to accept defeat.

But i just wondered what the experiences, if any, have been of the collective.

Thank you all for your time

Regards
Mark

[James McGrath]

Air-conditioning has to be the single most fragile system on the Cavalier.
I've battled to get the Air-con working on my Diplomat and now my V6 since I bought them.

To be honest, air-con systems are probably the only thing you really shouldn't try to fix yourself.
Refrigerant is extremely dangerous and it's actually illegal to work on the system without a qualification.

Luckily there are lots of small places that specialise in air-con repair and parts aren't actually too hard to come by if you know what you're looking for and where to look.

Expect there to be more than one problem in the system though, especially if it hasn't been ran in over 10 years.

What you need to do is have a dam good googling for local chaps who know there stuff like this:
http://tomautoaircon.co.uk/

Have vary deep pockets, be tenacious and don't give up!

[Kinky John]

Thank you very much indeed for your reply.

Yes, I'm aware that the air conditioning system is dangerous to work on and illegal due to both the pressures and the refrigerant, and if it was still gassed, I would have got the system professionally emptied. But the system is totally empty, I've given both the Schrader valves a quick tap and there is no pressure at all in the system.

But I thought that performing the labour and removing/refitting the components after degassing would be ok. With the labour involved to get to the components, it would be massively expensive and also goes against everything I believe in for someone else to do it, so that I will do that myself.

I have done a bit more searching and I have now started to find companies a bit more local to me that will offer pipe repair along the lines of the company in the link you included, so I'm slightly more confident about getting the pipe repaired. Some offer a postal service too which is encouraging and some offer fabrication of new pipes if they have the original.

I'm aware that a long time dormant system may have accumulated other issues, such as the ingress of moisture into the system necessitating a new receiver/dryer. Also bearing in mind the components are 20 years old, I would be looking to replace the condenser, receiver/dryer, expansion valve, pressure switch and evaporator to give the thing as good a chance as it can to work.

Plus I didn't want to repair the pipe, refit and regas the system only to find that the 20 year old condenser or evaporator now pops a leak. And then have to go through it all again.

James, can you quickly summarise what the faults were on your Cavaliers that you had to repair or replace to get your air con working? Was it a split pipe and after that was repaired you regassed it and everything held pressure, so you left it at that? Or was it one of the other components? Or did you replace all the components anyway out of best practice?

I've been looking at removing the evaporator just recently and it looks a job of biblical proportions. I want to replace it, and I've got the glovebox and the footwell trim removed to inspect the job, but it looks a nasty, evil job. If that's what it takes, then that's what it takes, but I have to balance the effort taken versus the necessity of doing it.

Similarly, the condenser and receiver are in front of the radiator, so the radiator has to come out. To get the radiator out, the fan has to come off first to allow space for the radiator to come out. The bottom lugs of the fan as it attaches to the radiator have seized together, so the radiator and fan will have to come out as one unless I sacrifice it. Even then, its an auto, so the radiator incorporates the gearbox oil cooler, so the oil pipes have to come off and transmission oil will need to be drained. And on it goes....

I'd be grateful to benefit from your experience with removing these items if you had to do it yourself, especially the evaporator. Is it the awful nightmare that it looks for example?

Thanks for your time.

Mark

[James McGrath]

Absolutely, if you want to do all the work yourself then good on you. Just not something that I can really recommend you doing.

I haven't done any work on it myself so I can't really help you in that regard.

My diplomat had a nitrogen pressure test and it was holding charge initially but after about a week it began to drop. This turned out to be the o rings which I had replaced. after that the system was properly re-gassed only to find out the compressor had seized. At that point I gave up.
As for my V6, I have a hole in the bottom of the condenser. I'm still in the process of getting that fixed.

[cavalier1990]

Hello all,

Please see The Lounge forum for my introduction and hello, but hello once again to you all, I'm a long time lurker and first time poster.

I'm trying to get the Air Conditioning back into service on a 1995 Cavalier V6 CDX. I've had the car 10 years and it has never worked. When I first got the car I took it for a regas and a bit of a look over and as soon as it was connected to the machine, it shot a huge jet of high pressure refrigerant into the face and eyes of the fellow who was doing it because when he switched the machine on he happened to have his hands on the slam panel and be looking down into the area at the front of the engine.

After I'd sufficiently recovered my composure, changed my now soaking wet panties etc, and after he'd recovered from the direct blast of R134a gas to the face, he quickly came to the conclusion that there was a leaking air con pipe. I tended to agree with his diagnosis on this one. It's the one that runs along the front of the car, at the bottom of the radiator, left to right as you look down on it, from the compressor to condenser.

Now I know that these pipes are not available any more from Vauxhall, and I have checked just in case, because sometimes you never know.

So my questions are:

1) Has anyone ever had any experience in repairing air conditioning pipe themselves? If so how did you do it?

2) I have come across Splice Kits which give you a method to cut out the faulty section and rejoin the 2 ends together, has any body ever used these with success?

3) Are there any places/companies that offer repair of aircon pipes? I can imagine that due to the filthy, thankless, awkward task of repairing old vehicle aircon pipes ,that no one could make a living out of doing this.

4) Has anyone come across places/companies that will make up new aircon pipe if given the original? Obviously, this would be the preferred solution.

I have done a Google search for 3 and 4, not an exhaustive one yet, but at the moment I've not found anywhere, though i will keep searching.

The problem is not helped by the fact that this pipe connects to the compressor with a block type union and actually the block also joins together another aircon pipe that comes in at 90 degrees from along the offside sub-frame and then snakes off behind the engine and then 90 degrees again along the bulkhead. Where these 2 pipes are joined at the block union on the compressor, its either a cast or welded item, you can't separate the pipes at the point they join the block. The pipes do have large nut unions at 3 or 4 locations that do allow the whole pipe circuit to be split apart, but getting to them is horrible - do-able but horrible.

To be honest i can imagine everyone already thinking why bother? And indeed I've looked at this probably a dozen times in the last 10 years and come to the same conclusion. But the thing is, i really like aircon, and i really want it to work. I've decided that during the coming summer months i would now be prepared to dismantle it all and take on the horrific job that it must be if i knew it was possible to repair or renew the pipes.

So i wondered if anyone else out there has been through this and what advice they would offer? If i get a number of people replying saying they've tried and it didn't work, or you can't repair the pipe, or get any new pipe made, then i will forget this once and for all.

Obviously, it goes without saying that with enough money anything can be done, so if it can be done but its going to cost £800 for example, then I'm going to have to accept defeat.

But i just wondered what the experiences, if any, have been of the collective.

Thank you all for your time

Regards
Mark

Hi John

You should be able to get new pipes made up easily or existing ones repaired. I got one done for one of my other cars, well more of a modification as it was required to hook up to a new drier as the originals weren't available.

Regarding your AC, at the very least, and with your pipe fixed, you'll need a leak test, which is actually a vacuum test to then other basic tests once gassed up. You might be lucky if everything works as it should, if not you'll need to start replacing parts and for compressors you're easily talking upwards of £400 for a recon, you might get cheaper but it's really not worth skimping on quality proper rebuild.

If you get the pipe fixed then take it from there with vac test etc. and then you can see what else needs done.

Andrew

[humbucker]

My suggestion would be to rip the air conditioning system out of a Calibra or Cavalier donor/scrap car. Job done.

Failing that, speak to someone like Pirtek. They'll probably be able to help, or at least point you in the direction of a firm that can.

[cavalier1990]

My suggestion would be to rip the air conditioning system out of a Calibra or Cavalier donor/scrap car. Job done.

Failing that, speak to someone like Pirtek. They'll probably be able to help, or at least point you in the direction of a firm that can.

Will be a rare find to even get a cavy in scrappy now, less likely with air con.

[humbucker]

2) I have come across Splice Kits which give you a method to cut out the faulty section and rejoin the 2 ends together, has any body ever used these with success?

This has to be the easiest option? Surely it's just a case of cutting the pipe and fitting a new section? No different from making/repairing/fitting brake lines in that respect.

[V6cav1995]

Hi all

Not sure if people still use this site i have a v6 cavalier auto. The radiator has had it and i cant find another one anywhere. Need to find out if the pipes on the back and underneath of radiator are for aircon. I i can find radiator for cars with no aircon so was hoping to do away with my aircon and use the radiator i can get. Any help much appreciated.

[Robsey]

There are two power steering pipes that run across the back of the front panel, from the power steering pump,
then forwards on the left side of the radiator, and then loop back across to the right underneath / in-front of the radiator.

Here is my non-air-con straight-4 car.

Hopefully these show the power steering pipes.





There are the big top and bottom radiator hoses and the expansion bottle feed pipe.

Anything that you have left over is for air conditioning.

Although electrically very different,
As far as radiator hoses are concerned, there should not be much difference between air-con and non-air-con water pipes.
I hope that all makes sense.

One diffrrence you may find is the radiator locations. The frint panel on the V6 / air-con is different from the "standard" front end.
-----------------------------

As you sort of hint. If the air-con is never running, the engine should not need the bigger air-con radiator.

In answer to your question, yes this site is still alive and well.

[Robsey]

Here is the air-con version of mine.
Pinched from Cavalier1990.

I am guessing that the big reversed "S" shaped pipe is for aircon...



And the power steering pipes.