Cable's Thread of Ongoing Misery

[Cabletwitch]

Sooo... a quick recap for those who might be new to this...

Last year, bought a 1.8 from a nice bloke up North (one Mr 5853moore, if you're still about?), good condition, ran well etc. Had some good times with it, happy to have a working Cav once more. Since then, I have managed to work an inverse-Midas touch on it, giving it the ability for it to find new and untold ways of giving me grief, which was a tad frustrating as my know-wots are primarily diesel.

Recently, I traced an issue to what appeared to be the disintegration of the EGR valve gasket, and have been working to get the bloody thing removed and capped off (if the parts ever turn up at any point... Vauxhall, I'm looking at you...). Low idle RPM, misfires, wanky starting power, and the very strange occurance of the engine playing silly buggers at about 2.5-3.5k RPM like it was bouncing off the rev limiter, only really happened in 3rd to 5th. A temp gasket gacked on, problem seems to have gone away. Happy days! Or so I thought...

Sadly, the issue still persists, although not quite as badly as before. Still sometimes goes a bit low at idle, pulling away can feel like the engine is on springs (Likely the mounts are on the way out, yay...) and the wonmky RPM has now shifted up a band to 3.5-4k.

Very odd.

As a weird co-incidence (no, it's really not), I could also hear what I thought was bubbling now and then, as if the heater matrix had air trapped in it. Eventually I stopped being lazy and checked the coolant tank... erm... isn't that supposed to have fluid in there? Yup, drank the lot somehow.

Sooo... I have this horrible gut feeling the dreaded words 'head' and 'gasket' are what I'll be hearing in the subsequent replies, because I can find no trace of it having leaked out anywhere else. It's yet another marvellous example of why I should never be allowed to own these things, I guess.

Woo! Another paragraph! I like these, but this'll be the last one, promise. If anyone has any theories, ideas or experience that might help me unbugger this thing finally, then feel free to let me know here, and I'll be eternally grateful (until I actually buy you a pint, then I'll probably forget). Else feel free to point and laugh at an idiot, and then tell me how to fix it. Either works, but only the first method gets the pint!

[Robsey]

Obvious comment is get a sniff test done on the coolant header bottle.

If it is the head gasket, do not worry.
They are a doddle on the 8 valve units.

When our's needed doing, it drank a full header tank of water per day, and ran really lumpy on start-up until it warmed up.

Other tell tales of head gaskets are one particularly clean spark plug, when the other three look used.

I take it there is no puddle on the floor to indicate a duff radiator or dribbling water pump. A wet driver's side wishbone once hailed the presence of a duff water pump.

Returning to head gasket issues - it is quite common for the fat coolant pipe from the radiator to the thermostat housing to swell up when hot. Obviously exhaust gasses getting into the water jacket.

So if a gasket is needed -
It will also give you the opportunity to renew the stem seals and generally clean up the head and camshaft housing.

A full head gasket set and some stretch bolts should be all you need.

Many people go on about head skimming.
But I have only ever done this once in 20-odd years of faffing with cars of most makes and models.
I did the head gasket 3 times on my C18NZ engine.
The first two were due to racing cars that my wife or I had no chance of keeping up with.
The third was a full engine refresh due to running issues. This was the only time I had a skim done...and I am sure that it wasn't really necessary.

I would allow a full weekend for a novice.
Four or five hours for the initiated.
The correct tools and luck being on your side will sure speed things up.

[Cabletwitch]

Once again, you prove to be full of the kind of wisdom and experience I need!

I have to say it's not running lumpy on startup though, seems to idle smoothly now I've done the EGR gasket/sealy goo, but does tend to drop lower once it's been running for a while. Definite smell of unburnt juice coming from the exhaust, so something is causing incomplete combustion... aaand while writing all this I've just had the oh-so-stupidly-simple idea of checking to see if the bloody air filter has collapsed... that's getting done after dinner... the symptoms do seem to point to oxygen starvation, now I think of it... More to follow!

[Cabletwitch]

So... quick update... after popping the pipe off the filter box (because it's much less hassle than the sodding clip puzzle), it does appear that the filter was restricting the airflow. All gears seem to power properly all the way through the RPM range, and there is nary a misfire to be heard (Partly due to the EGR gasket fix, and the rest down to this..). So, hopefully now this'll be the root cause and be easily fixable for not many pennies. The exhaust is still smelling of un-burnt fuel though at idle, so not sure if there is still something else the matter, or if it's whatever has collected in the pipework burning off finally.

Not checked the header tank yet, but will give that a looksee when it's light tomorrow, and find out if she's got a drinking problem...

[Lowrider Dave]

Could be the lambda sensor causing overfuelling.

[Cabletwitch]

Yeah, I think I'll be replacing that next. I weant to stop that issue before I replace the exhaust/cat, so I don't knacker the new one/s.

[Robsey]

From my experience, lambda sensors do appear to be the weakest components on the 1.8 injection set up. (Assuming C18NZ).

I had three on mine in approx 18 years.
I eventually changed to a C20NE set up.

It is good to get a decent one.
My original factory fit sensor lasted about 16 years.
I replaced it dueto an intermittent fault code 1-3 when cruising at around 2000 to 2500 rpm on the motorway.
My next sensor lasted just over a year. This gave a lot of hot start issues due to my plugs being very very sooty. (Over rich by a mile).

So - assuming rear end fuel smells are not a weaping fuel tank, then it is fair to suggest an over rich mixture caused by a faulty lambda unit.

[Cabletwitch]

Yeah, it's pointing to a wonky sensor.. there are no fuel smells around the car when it's not running, and I have to get down close to the pipe when it's idling to get anything of it... so I'm guessing the next job is the sensor. Should be fairly easy to do, unscrews and unplugs, yes? As for the filter, I'll have to get one on order from MPD when I'm at work next, and fit that when I have the time... honestly, it's so nice not having anything on the end of the air pipe I'm sorely tempted to leave it off anyway... but never a good idea, I guess. Still, a few days won't hurt.

Anyone got a link to the right sensor handy, either ebay or some reputable retailer?

[James McGrath]

Anyone got a link to the right sensor handy, either ebay or some reputable retailer?

Here you go buddy.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LS50311-Bosch ... SwzJ5XUYIR

Bosch ones will last a bit longer.

[Cabletwitch]

Thank ye kindly, Mr James, I have ordered one and will see if it cures the stench of bad fuel consumption!

[Cabletwitch]

Ok, so I've got a pair of new sensors to install (the O2 bobble and a new MAP sensor), thinking about swapping out the temp one in case that's also gone a bit soft. I was looking around the Ebays and caught sight of this one, just need one of you fine people to give me a thumbs up on whether or not it's the right part for the job.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-CAVA ... Sw4shX4Uzc

If anyone can confirm or point me to the right part, I'd appreciate that (and remember the info for the future too!). I'm guessing there would be two sensors, one for the ECU and one for the gauge on the dash, no? Just need to make sure this is the former and not the latter. Plus, I like using smart words to make myself look better. Quad erat demonstrandum, ipso facto, hasta la gazpacho.

(Also, if anyone can point out to this idiot how to make long URLs appear shorter, please do. It'll help preserve your sanity and mine.)

[Cabletwitch]

Well... bollocks.

It was all going so well, too. I set out with unbridled enthusiasm and determination to replace both sensors and get the old girl working SO much better.

That was the plan, anyway.

What ACTUALLY happened is now I have half an old O2 sensor with the rest practically welded into the exhaust manifold (Copious amounts of penetrating oil are being applied along with brute force and blood/tears). You'll notice the newer sensor is just a wee bit bigger, but it's the one you guys have pointed me to so I'll go ahead and bun it into the hole when the other eventually comes out.

The MAP sensor... I have a horrible feeling Vauxhall/GM design their cars to make things LOOK like they come apart, but are actually held in with black magic and the worlds strongest clips. I have never sworn at a part that refused to leave its home as much as the stupid bracket that this thing sits in. Undo half the clips, and as soon as you even look at the other half, they re-seat and refuse to give you even a millisecond of time to even consider working on the others. After having almost ripped the metal clean off the bulkhead in a fit of rage and hurled the stupid flappy panel clean across the road, I finally got it out, and replaced the bloody thing. One thing done successfully.

Then, it dawned on me to check the plugs, as I've noticed she's drinking coolant a wee bit too much for my liking... Plug one (Going from timing belt end to distrib end here), fine. Yellowy/light brown and looking nice and fine. Plug two, three, much the same. Plug four...

Plug four is a special plug. On one side, it looks almost fine, if a tad blacker than expected. The other side of it, however, shows a different story altogether...

I found this to be the case when I changed the plugs originally, not sure what to make of it. There is a build-up of something hard and slightly brittle on the electrodes and core shroud, and the end of the plug is a reddish colouration. I'm not sure what to make of it, so if anyone has any ideas, please enlighten this poor sod before he goes a bit mental.

I'm guessing head gasket, but instead of the 'one suspiciously clean plug' as Robsey mentioned a while back, it's crap covered and blackened. Potentially an oil incursion, possibly a gateway to the horrible nether realms of planet arse, but whatever the case, not good.

So, after you've all finished laughing, throw me any ideas and solutions on the back of a beermat and I'll set about trying to unbugger the lump forthwith.

[James McGrath]

Yeah the Bosch O2 sensors do have a bigger casing than most pattern parts but the thread should be the same size.

O2 sensors can get stuck if they have been in for a long time and were not properly greased up before fitment.
I had the same problem with my Diplomat, I had to get a whole new exhaust downpipe in the end.

[Cabletwitch]

Yeah, this one is pretty damn glued in, but tomorrow I shall be using the blowtorch to see if I can get it to shift. My tame pet mechanic (who lives in Louisiana, formerly the West Country) advises me to do a compression test on the last cylinder, to find out if there is any issues with it. He also noted the possibility of a swirl being introduced to that cylinder causing an incomplete burn, which would explain the misfires I've been having.

Interestingly, it's the branch of the intake manifold that has the brake servo vac line running from it, so I wonder if there is an issue with that too. Not that it would be surprising, seeing as how everything is already going slowly wrong for me all over! I'll look to replacing all the tubing at some point as well, see if that helps.

[Cabletwitch]

GOT THE BASTARD THING!

After judicious application of the blowtorch (and several minor burns later), I managed to get the manifold to expand just enough to crack the rust and loosen the damned thing. Oh, the joy that came from knowing it was finally out of that wretched hole was glorious...

THIS was the result... note the lovely reddish colouration that I have been informed is the result of Asdas 'finest' unleaded, which has the habit of turning all things burgundy whether desired or not... I shall be filling up with better quality stuff in the future, I think.

The net result of swapping the MAP sensor and the O2 jibbly has meant I now have full power over the entire rev range again, and boy does she drive so much more cleanly now! Still need to change the clutch at some point, but everything is smoother and more enjoyable. I'm going to change out both temperature sensors as and when I order a pair of new ones, and then that's the feedback part of the ECU sorted. Alas, the misfire is still evident, and the draining coolant tank does indicate I do have a nice gap in the head gasket which is going to require sorting fairly soon... debating whether or not to stick it in a decent garage and have them do it faster than I can, or get the parts myself and spend a whole weekend wondering why nothing works anymore... Still, if they do a good job, I'd consider letting them do the clutch after.

But yes, less misery now, although we're not completely sorted yet!

[iangsi]

. Looks to be the right part for the job.

[Robsey]

A decent garage will have the correct tools and techniques to get the job done quite quickly.

Just allow for other stuff to be done at the same time.

When I did mine, due to how much is removed, I thought it was a good idea to replace anything of un-known history.
Timing belt, tensioner, water pump, full head gasket and bolt set, alternator drive belt, coolant and so on.

[Cabletwitch]

Yup, spoke to a decent little garage near work, asked them for a pricing... all the above plus a few other things like crack testing and the like comes to around £600 notes... Given I picked the car up for £350... I'm torn. I'd like a proper done up Cav one day, and this one seems to be a good candidate for that, but also want to get the Ethos' arse end rebuilt and back on the road, coz I loves me my dirty diesel...

What to do?

[Robsey]

Do you really expect an un-biased opinion on a Cavalier forum?

It sounds a chunk of money, but if the engine is fully sorted, then it should easily last for a fair few years into the future.

I suppose it depends which car will bring you the most smiles per mile when fully sorted.

[ilovedmymantas]

Do you really expect an un-biased opinion on a Cavalier forum?

It sounds a chunk of money, but if the engine is fully sorted, then it should easily last for a fair few years into the future.

As I keep telling my partner's daughter when she suggests " why don't you get a newer car, you're always fixing yours ?" ( I'm not, It's just maintenance and besides, I couldn't afford it )

You pay £120 a month, - for a car you don't own , that has no personality. - You couldn't pick it out in a car park.
She just doesn't get it.
Surely preservation is the ultimate recycling ? I guess It's all part of the "throw -away society" -Sorry, if that appears a bit random. I know what I meant

That's £1440 every year . Even with maintenance, mods and mot's my car costs me a lot less annually.

- It puts it in perspective for me when unexpected larger repairs are involved .

I suppose it depends which car will bring you the most smiles per mile when fully sorted.

No contest for me.
I don't ever remember seeing F1 diesel featuring on World of Sport in my childhood . Diesel's for tractors and lorries

On a serious note, I always use premium petrol, have done for years with no problems. Cheaper in the long run than using additives.
IIrc the cheapest fuels are only 90% petrol, the other 10% is component-rotting shit (E10 rings a bell - google it ?) made from corn-starch

The cost of driving my petrol cav is outweighed by the pleasure I get from driving it

[Cabletwitch]

Just a small update, she went in for her powerplant surgery last Tuesday. Owing to the machine shop being a little tardy she's not back until tomorrow, but hopefully much smoother, much less thirsty, and a LOT less leaky. Going to cost in the region of just under 800 notes, but as you lads have stated, cars like these are worth the money when you know how long they can last for.

The BEST news though, is that the garage I've gone to can also potentially pull the arse end of the diesel back into shape too... I'll likely need a replacement boot lid for her to provide a proper line of reference, but it's do-able, and for less than a mainstream body shop would charge (the chap who runs the garage doesn't offer it as a listed service anymore, but still has the equipment and the knowledge, and was interested enough to want to offer the option). I'll see how these repairs hold up, and then have a little chat with him regarding prices...

Oh, and the other good news? Fully functional Tech1 diagnostics too, so anyone in the Reading/Bracknell/Wokingham/Surrounding areas, we have somewhere to plug the old girls in and get a nice readout of their aches and pains... Sorry Hummy, but when it's right on your doorstep..

[Lowrider Dave]

Glad to hear there is progress, Mike!

[Cabletwitch]

Progress, yes! Hopefully have her back tomorrow lunchtime, if all goes well. The problem with smaller places is they're often booked out and busy most days, so work like this comes between all the MoTs and servicing, I guess. Still, a small price to pay for what hopefully is some solid repair work. I'll keep you guys updated with any 'adventures' at this garage, and if he produces the goods on the next couple of trips, then he'll go on the recommended list, I think.

[Robsey]

Good news on the garage having Tech1.
Although you shouldn't really need it.

Looking forward to hearing some good news on the engine work

[Cabletwitch]

Well, hmm.

So, she's back from the garage, having had a new head gasket, skimming, valves re-seated and ground, etc. etc.

And it's still doing it. Still fires up fine, no popping or loss of RPM at idle, then gradually slips back into old habits. The engine does feel a bit perkier, but at the same time, almost like the idle issue is a little worse. I'm truly stumped at this point, pondering all kinds of weird things that could do this.

I haven't changed the temp sensor yet, so it's still in the realms of possibility that it could be at fault. I'm not sure if they fail low or high when they go, or just weirdly, but it could be giving some weird signals to the ECU causing it to do stupid things. I did think of the possibility of the alternator providing insufficient power, but nothing seems dim or otherwise short on juice when running.

It COULD be the doo-dah pack under the coil which is spannering up the ignition sequence, or the sensor which drives the whole thing in the first place (crank sensor, right?). Hell, at this point, I'm considering switching out the entire ECU to find out if it's just gone senile on me, and is having a little jolly off into la-la land.

At least she seems to be in good condition mechanically, little wear on the piston rings reported, the bores still have the cross-hatch from their original honing still visible. Slightly more tappety now it's all been taken apart and reassembled, but I'm hoping that quietens down over time. Various gaskets and seals have been renewed, and the EGR valve is back in and working again (apparently you can no longer get the official blanking plate and gasket from GM, so boo to them for that).

And after all this, I've got the WONDERFUL smell of milk decaying in the passenger side foot well after a 4 pinter leaked all over it just before the work. I thought I'd cleaned it well enough... but apparently not... smells like someone threw up in there (almost me upon getting a nose-full of it for the first time...)

So... back to the drawing board again. Any further ideas, chaps?