Cavalier 2.0GLi Randomly stopping

[gazzafield]

My Cavalier 2.0GLi has started to randomly stop running. Some history.

Driving home form work I felt a couple of very slight hiccups before having driven nearly 20 miles I lifted off the gas for a roundabout and the engine died. No warning lights had come on until the engine stopped running. The car would not restart. I called the AA. I waited 20 to 25 minutes, AA man arrived, I explained recent events, car started. Drove home the last six or so miles followed by AA man without a hitch.

Left car sitting while I ordered up a fuel filter and waited on the weather letting me fit it. Fitted fuel filter and ran car on driveway for approximately five minutes before I took it out for a run. I got about half a mile. I was pulling out of a Give Way, so the revs were up when it died very suddenly, like a timing belt going. To be clear, timing belt has not broken. Car would not restart. Walked home.

I left the car approximately an hour and then went back up to it. Car would still not start. Got towed home by wife. Next morning, nearly 24 hours later, I went out to the car and it started as if nothing had happened. I am confused. Obviously I cannot drive the car anywhere at the moment as it could die at any time and I am driving on very busy country roads, dual carriageways and motorways. So not very safe.

So, I'm kind of stuck. Has anyone had anything similar happen. i don't want to start chucking money at all the wrong things without having an idea where to look. the car has only done 40k miles and I have done 13k trouble free ones of those. Is there a generic fault code reader that you can get for Cav's so that I can "ask the car" what ails it?

Thanks in advance for any responses.

[colin1]

You haven't mentioned an EM light so there might not be a code for you to read

You will need to persevere with the testing or you won't find out what the issue is.

When it goes does it sound like you're being towed in gear without the ignition on?

The next time you take it out (on short, localised drives) go equipped to check for fuel delivery and spark immediately after the engine dies.

[Lowrider Dave]

Try the 'paperclip test' to determine if there is an obvious fault:

viewtopic.php?f=46&t=630

[colin1]

Feels like an earthing issue for some reason
You say you've owned it for 13k of the 40k that it's done, have you done any recent work on it like say, alternator removal for any reason? I'm just wondering if the alternator earth was reconnected.

You could check the engine to chassis earths, make sure

they're there
structural integrity is in keeping with a good earth
they're the right size
they're not buried under several layers of grime from the road and/or fluids seeping from the engine

I just get the impression that something is trying to get to earth through an earth point that is

inadequate or
not there

and going back to the car much later has given it a chance to discharge to earth - only for you to repeat the cycle

[gazzafield]

Hmmmm, good thinking. I shall have a look at that. No, no recent electrical work. Been very reliable. Fuel filter and a leaking fuel hose has been the sum total of recent work.

[Cavalier342]

Just wondering, when it cuts out, and you try to restart it, does it crank over at all, or is everything completely dead?

I had a sort of similar issue with my old C18NZ auto, died for no reason a couple of times, went to turn the key and everything was dead, like the battery had been disconnected. After a brief period, everything came back and it would start again.

Turned out eventually to be a faulty ignition switch. Once it actually started smoking from the ignition loom under the steering cowling, if I didn't disconnect the battery it would have lit up I reckon. Replaced the ignition switch, that was the end of it.

[gazzafield]

Still got all the dash lights for ignition on. Cranks over fine and smells of fuel. I had a Skoda Favorit that did the same thing and it too was an ignition wire that was coming loose. Took the gubbins off around the switch and loosened the ignition and the wire fell off. Helped with fault finding! I just remembered this as I was thinking about it driving home in the wife's car. I am beginning to think I know where I am going to have start looking..........

[snowy]

My Cavalier 2.0GLi has started to randomly stop running. Some history.

Driving home form work I felt a couple of very slight hiccups before having driven nearly 20 miles I lifted off the gas for a roundabout and the engine died. No warning lights had come on until the engine stopped running. The car would not restart. I called the AA. I waited 20 to 25 minutes, AA man arrived, I explained recent events, car started. Drove home the last six or so miles followed by AA man without a hitch.

Left car sitting while I ordered up a fuel filter and waited on the weather letting me fit it. Fitted fuel filter and ran car on driveway for approximately five minutes before I took it out for a run. I got about half a mile. I was pulling out of a Give Way, so the revs were up when it died very suddenly, like a timing belt going. To be clear, timing belt has not broken. Car would not restart. Walked home.

I left the car approximately an hour and then went back up to it. Car would still not start. Got towed home by wife. Next morning, nearly 24 hours later, I went out to the car and it started as if nothing had happened. I am confused. Obviously I cannot drive the car anywhere at the moment as it could die at any time and I am driving on very busy country roads, dual carriageways and motorways. So not very safe.

So, I'm kind of stuck. Has anyone had anything similar happen. i don't want to start chucking money at all the wrong things without having an idea where to look. the car has only done 40k miles and I have done 13k trouble free ones of those. Is there a generic fault code reader that you can get for Cav's so that I can "ask the car" what ails it?

Thanks in advance for any responses.

I had this on a calibra, turned out to be the fuel pump giving up. Hence no fault codes. Leave it a while and it would work again.

[Greig Sri]

Fuel pump realy ?. Down by drivers feet. Give the cover a kick to see if that makes it work when the car stops.

Greig

[gazzafield]

Greig, Snowy,

Yes, fuel pump or relay was the first of my thoughts. However, when it stopped the second time and I had back in my driveway and tried to start it, it was very smelly of fuel. I didn't think this would be the case with a knackered pump/relay. Or am i wrong?

[colin1]

Where did you get the impression that the smell was coming from?

[gazzafield]

Dare I say, the engine? Heavy stench of fuel when cranking the engine but not firing.

[snowy]

Dare I say, the engine? Heavy stench of fuel when cranking the engine but not firing.

Fuel smell could be that there is fuel but not under pressure so the car doesn't start.

But it is simple to check for fuel pressure.

[gazzafield]

I had thought of that as a possibility. So I have ordered up a fuel relay to try. It was only £7. So I feel it's worth a punt.

[cavalier1990]

Check simple things first, check battery connection tight, coil plug not half on/off. Check coil plug pins aint rotten, check dizzy pick up brush etc.

When you say won't restart assume you mean it's churning but not firing, not "dead"?

[gazzafield]

Yep, chunters away but doesn't fire.

[planetc]

If you don't want to chuck money at it then it's better to reproduce the fault and work towards tracing it. Fuel relay is perfectly possible, as is crank sensor, coil, and pump. Without more diagnosis steps it could be a lot of things. Watch the eml when cranking it in a fault condition, if the crank sensor is iffy it won't go out when cranking, if the ecu has a power supply issue it won't light in the first place.

[gazzafield]

Changed the rotor arm today. simply as I had a new one lying on the shelf - as you do - and have never changed it. Fired up car and it idled away and after 5 to 10 minutes, it stopped. Fired straight back up and then continued to idle away and be revved through to the cooling fan kicking in three times. Not sure how long it ran for when restarted but it's longer than it has since I got it home from the fault first rearing it's head. I eventually turned it off. i shall repeat the process again through the week and see what happens. The car is going nowhere until it looks like it is going to behave itself. The roads I have to drive outside of my town just make it a little bit dangerous if it was to just conk out with no warning at all.

[gazzafield]

So, ran the car again today and moved it , just around the drive. Car conked out when moving. Three goes to start it again. First two times I could tell it was trying to fire, unlike before when it just churned. Third time it fired and I noticed that for the first time I can remember the Engine Management Light remained for no more than a second or two before going out. The car then could be parked up and it idled through the cooling fan coming on twice and giving it a boot full of revs from time to time. Does this info give anyone any more clues? I'm now thinking possibly crankshaft or camshaft sensor?

[planetc]

No cam sensor on the 8v 2.0, which I assume this is being a gli. Crank sensor is feasible, the light doesn't go out on cranking if it doesn't have a signal

[gazzafield]

Crank Sensor it is then. I can get one for £10.80. Dumb question. Where is it located? (I know it will be somewhere around the crankcase. )

[Cavalier342]

Look at the rocker cover, you'll see the plug for it tied to a metal bracket which is held on with the far left rocker cover bolt. That's the crank sensor wire. Right side of the plug goes to the ECU, left side of the plug goes to the crank sensor when looking at it from the front of the car. Follow the wire down, it navigates around the engine block and round to the back of it somewhere.

[gazzafield]

Thanks. I'll get one ordered up and get it changed and see where that leaves me. Hopefully with a working car!

[planetc]

Crank sensor mounts in the front of the engine below the ps pump. Andrei is right about the wire though, you should be able to follow it down.

[gazzafield]

OK, so after a little hiatus I got to look at the Cavalier again. Started car and it ran, revved and idled for a good ten minutes or more. Got nice and warm, and then stopped. It started again without a lot of grief and ran for five monutes or so, then stopped. It took a little more effort, three or four tries and it started up again, for a couple of minites before conking out. This time it would not start again.

So, I whipped out a plug and - nothing. Strong smell of fuel though. So, anybody had similar? I'm open to any suggestions. What I can say is that since replacing the rotor arm it has started up again before giving up the ghost completely. It wouldn't start up at all after conking out before the rotor arm was changed, which I find odd.

So at least I now know it's the ignition "side" of things. I was thinking of possibly working back from the plugs. So the next thing would be the dizzy cap, then coil.