Fortschritt durch Technik

[Telegram Sam]

I had the car in the garage today for some minor fix and alongside there was an Audi 3.0 TDi coupe, 05 reg which by my reckoning is 11 years old. The bonnet was open. I remarked that compared with mine the engine, partially dismantled, looked like a spaghetti junction (but rather more complicated). The answer came that there were 2 components that needed replacing, each costing of the order of £1K, in addition to the 4 hours need to access them.
Granted that my motor has had a few mods, but compared to this it was made from Lego-bricks - well spaced. I suppose that in the intervening years since the Audi was built the hi-tec has got higher, with the inevitable effect on servicing. Which makes me think that in this respect it is not so dotty after all to drive around in a 25 year old Cav where even normal mortals can see more or less what is driving what, and what needs fixing.

[James McGrath]

Cavaliers were never designed to be state of the art.
Not that they were out of date, far from it in fact; they were specifically designed to be rugged and easy to maintain.

However you look at the V6 or 4x4 Cavaliers they are significantly harder to work on and there is much more to go wrong, but they were aimed at a different sector of the market than most Cavaliers.

The main defence is that Audi strives to be at the forefront of innovation and technology. This leads to debatably over engendered designs.

[Telegram Sam]

Not much to debate - open and shut case! My garage man reckoned that German cars were more difficult to work on than French, the opposite to what I would have guessed

[Robsey]

I can honestly say that an early 16v Fiat Punto 1.2 engine was the most hideous engine to work on...with electronic wiring and vacuum hoses passing through the curls of the induction system pipework.
Not complex but difficult to access.

Thankfully, you can't get much easier than a straight four, eight valve engine.
The large engine bay and well considered layout of the Vauxhall make it a piece of cake to work on it. Given the simplicity of 90's electronics and they are a dream to diagnose and repair.

We have had a 16v diesel (fiat engine) Vectra for 11 years. The level of electronics and controller area network (CAN) control systems make for a very complicated system to work on.

Regarding Vauxhall's position in technology. We all remember early adverts for computerised continuous self diagnostics on the 80's mk2 Cavalier.
In it's day dubbed as being boringly reliable.

I worked on 80's Nissans and Toyota's all of which were still using points and condensors. (Ask your grandad - lol).

So if you thought Japan was at the forefront of technology....

Sadly - coming back to the start of all this... I have found that a lot of German stuff has recently taken a dip in quality.
So hopefully a temporary situation.

Thankfully Bosch still appear to be making the most reliable parts for Vauxhalls and Opels.

[Robsey]

As a side comment.
Your title translates to progress through technology.

The true Audi phrase is Vorsprung Durch Technik. =
Head start through technology.

[Telegram Sam]

I stand corrected. Technology was never my strong point. As long as the motor does what it says on the tin, and a bit more ..

[cavalier1990]

For me the cavalier, and cars of a similar vintage is as far as I want to take it with cars now, not that more modern cars are really that much more complex (leaving aside the ghastly ergonomic designs of most cars now), more that they are over engineered with unnecessary gadgets and confusing arrays of indicators and dials (please wait till I go get my pipe and slippers!), for instance my Brother's got a 14 plate Passat with electronic handbrake, and it's a nightmare of a thing, not to mention the unfamiliarity of it, especially when pulling up on a steep hill junction. Also this mad engine turning off and on all the time, does it really save fuel, having to use fuel to recharge the battery a little all the time, plus the extra fuel to restart the engine?

Apparently he had got the handbrake thing sussed, until he decided to pull out of a parking space on our road, in the ice, with the back wheels locked, he never realised because back wheels were locked and just sliding on the ice - thought it was foolproof huh! He tried to explain how it works, and in true disinterested fashion I never paid attention, and neither did I want to! I don't want war and peace on a bloody handbrake , just a big plastic handle will do me fine thank you very much. Pull it up to park, release to move, what could be simpler!

That's partly the reason I keep the oldies on the road, plus I like to be different!

[Telegram Sam]

Thanks for putting my own thoughts in words. Last month I had reason to hire the latest Nissan Qasquai (can't even spell it) with just about every electronic gismo possible and a few more beside. These included your automatic engine switch off (trying reasoning with the man behind you in the queue in front of the traffic lights who has to wait for the thing to re-start itself) and to cap it all the infamous electronic handbrake. On one of my routes home there is a busy T-junction at the top of a steep hill which inevitably involves waiting for a free slot and then taking it pretty smartish. Nothing to write home about in the Cav but just too much for the combined electronics wizardry in the Nissan. If I had had a spare L-plate I would have fitted it. Rückstand durch Technik however you write that in Japanese.

[Robsey]

Hmmm -


Gijutsu ni yoru zanryū-mono

[Robsey]

I have to hold my hands up and admit that I am guilty as charged.

Of Hypocrisy-

You see I drive a 1994 Cavalier fitted with technological gadgets that I have fitted from various other Vauxhall models.

(Read as - I will have once the Cav is rebuilt again.)

So I have a standalone circa 2005 CANbus system to drive a Sat Nav radio with blue tooth and colour maps, plays mp3 cd's and warns me about icy roads or severe traffic congestion.

I have a pretty digital display that pre-dates the Cavalier by at least five years... just so I can have a whizzy l.e.d. tachometer and yet more gadgets.

I have a one touch sun-roof that remembers how much tilt or slide that I used on my last trip out.

Plans to fit cruise control for those long motorway journeys.

And finally a funky Meta / Toad alarm system that closes all my windows and sunroof for me on the press of a button.

So yes, I accept the name hypocrite.
Although I too cannot bring myself to buy a new car with electronic handbrake with hill assist or stop-start technology.

Life is full of hypocrisy and contradictions.

[Telegram Sam]

... >> any resemblance to the original Cav is, or will be, purely accidental?

What gets you thinking is that as long as the black boxes continue to function with Japanese efficiency, well and good, but woe betide us when the time comes for them to start failing. If my handbrake cable wears out I'd hope it would be a quick Saturday morning replacement job, but hardly if it's lumbered with hill assist (assist???) technology.

[James McGrath]

Very few modern gadgets on cars today interest me.

Things like park assist, rear view cameras, automatic headlights, automatic windscreen wipers, super light power steering, automatic braking systems etc.
I have no need of any of it, and frankly if you do you shouldn't be driving in my opinion.

Gadgets that interest me are more like driver aids rather than driver assists.
Things like climate control, heated seats and heated steering wheels don't take anything away from the driver, they just make driving more comfortable.

[humbucker]

Things like park assist, rear view cameras, automatic headlights, automatic windscreen wipers, super light power steering, automatic braking systems etc.
I have no need of any of it, and frankly if you do you shouldn't be driving in my opinion.

Sadly, not everybody is a good driver, and the items you list are as much about improving driver safety as they are about equipping a car with 'toys'.

[Telegram Sam]

Gadgets that interest me are more like driver aids rather than driver assists.
Things like climate control, heated seats and heated steering wheels don't take anything away from the driver, they just make driving more comfortable

Funny - those are the kind of things I could live without!!! Sunroof (direct manual) a la SRi or climate control via a black box - no contest, give me the former any day. But central locking and electric mirrors I would make exceptions for - hardly hi-tec these days - and you could go on and on ...

[Robsey]

Obviously my gadgets are work related.

I drive about 20,000 miles a year visiting people all over Manchester, West Cheshire and the Wirral.

So Sat Nav, bluetooth, and cruise control all provide assistance to my working day.

Air Con would be nice. Nothing worse than turning up at a job after a long tedious drive when you are a hot and irritable mass of gopping sweat.

[cavalier1990]

As a side comment.
Your title translates to progress through technology.

The true Audi phrase is Vorsprung Durch Technik. =
Head start through technology.

Bit of a del boy moment there!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J4gv9uVURw

[Robsey]

Del Boy was always mis-phrasing French sayings..
But I know what you mean.

Mange tout!!