A Cav Diplomat clutch question

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mycav
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A Cav Diplomat clutch question

Post by mycav »

I just replaced the car's clutch after 170k miles as its Xmas present.
However I couldn't see why the Haynes manual said that a paint mark on the flywheel of a 2.0 litre engine had to be aligned with an indentation in the clutch assembly.
Can anyone throw some light on this?
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Robsey
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Re: A Cav Diplomat clutch question

Post by Robsey »

Haynes is not 100% accurate.

I know of 2 definite errors or omissions.

1 - The Haynes manual recommends much lower tyre pressures than my Cavalier Owner's manual.
2 - The Haynes manual completely forgets to mention that on later family 2 engines (1.8 and 2.0 8 valve engines), that the multi-vee / serpentine alternator drive belt passes through the front engine mount close to the power steering pump.

Returning to your flywheel / clutch query.
When I last did my clutch 5 or 6 years ago, there was no paint mark.
But I vaguely remember there being a "U" shaped cut-out on the clutch pressure plate, and a "0" type mark stamped onto the "pot" / recessed flywheel of my car.

These are the two markers that I had to line up at that time.
My car is a 1994 facelift car with F18 gearbox. (No inspection plate ).

How odd - I thought that all Diplomats were automatics... Well you live and learn.
mycav
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Re: A Cav Diplomat clutch question

Post by mycav »

I think I saw a yellow paint smudge and I lined it up with the clutch cut-out, but apart from being instructed by Haynes to do that, I didn't know what what actually being aligned or why.
The clutch pedal movement is now so soft from top to bottom it's like there's no spring, apart from the interior return spring. It feels really weird, but maybe that's what QH clutch kits are supposed to feel like. Anyway the clutch operates properly and the pedal's at the right height. Trouble is there's no clutch sensation and that seems very strange.
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Robsey
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Re: A Cav Diplomat clutch question

Post by Robsey »

A new clutch will indeed feel much lighter on the pedal.

It will probably take about 15 to 20 minutes of driving and changing gears to get the "feel" of the pedal.
You have just got used to how bad the clutch was before.

I have a similar situation where I have just fitted a new cable. Amazingly light pedal action. But it is by far much nicer to drive than it was with a very heavy clutch pedal.

As for alignment -
I am sure that not all of the fixture bolts are equally spaced around the circumference of the clutch.
At least one bolt is offset compared to the others.
So it should not be possible to fit it in the wrong orientation anyway.
The marker is there to make it easier to find the correct orientation first time.

A bit like the crankshaft sprocket...
The sprocket can only go on in one orientation due to one of the 4 bolt holes being slightly offset from the other 3.
mycav
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Re: A Cav Diplomat clutch question

Post by mycav »

What bugged me was that, to the best of my ability, I couldn't see (measure) that the bolts' holes were anything other than symmetrically positioned! But then, having scraped off the clutch dust from the flywheel, I saw a smear of yellow that wouldn't rub off and so was probably the mark mentioned.
Haynes said the 2l needed this positioning but not the other engines and that made me wonder.
Operating the clutch pedal by hand you can just feel the diaphragm spring resisting but using the correct limb for the job there's no change in feel at any point.
Looking on the bright side it will be easier to change gear and accelerate, despite the feel, as it had been slipping badly over the last few weeks.
I'm sure I'll learn to love it!
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Mk3alan
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Re: A Cav Diplomat clutch question

Post by Mk3alan »

Did you do the clutch change through the access point without separating the engine/gearbox? Brilliant idea.

Alan
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Robsey
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Re: A Cav Diplomat clutch question

Post by Robsey »

A 1994 Cavalier will not have the access panel on the clutch / bell-housing.

It is a gearbox off job for any 1992 onward car as they are usually fitted with a pot flywheel and an F18 gearbox.

A retro fit F16 or F20 box will have the access panel, but this will still only be useable where the old style flat flywheel is also fitted.
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Mk3alan
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Re: A Cav Diplomat clutch question

Post by Mk3alan »

What an excellent feature that was, all credit to the design engineers.
Had the thrust bearing collapse on my wife's MINI, what a nightmare. So much to dismantle/remove before even gaining access.
Cars used to be so simple!

Alan
mycav
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Re: A Cav Diplomat clutch question

Post by mycav »

For whatever reason my Diplomat didn't seem to follow all the construction changes for other Cavaliers.
This meant that it had the really useful DIY clutch installed.
It also means I have to be really careful when replacing things as Vauxhall's records are often misleading.
The best info seems to come from the appendix in the Haynes manual for the previous model and the Vectra 1 information in Opel's EPG in France.
As you say, cars used to be so simple!
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Robsey
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Re: A Cav Diplomat clutch question

Post by Robsey »

To be honest, my pot flywheel equipped Cavalier regularly causes parts suppliers problems.

I have to ask for a Calibra clutch assembly, not Cavalier.
Asking for a Cavalier unit always results in suppliers digging out the flat flywheel specification clutch kit.

If you remove the access panel, you should be able to see what sort of flywheel you have.

The clutch will seem "set into" the recess of a pot flywheel.

A clutch will protrude it's full thickness form a flat flywheel... if that makes sense.

For info, the friction plates and release bearing will fit either type... but the diaphram part is completely different.
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James McGrath
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Re: A Cav Diplomat clutch question

Post by James McGrath »

Mk3alan wrote:What an excellent feature that was, all credit to the design engineers.
Had the thrust bearing collapse on my wife's MINI, what a nightmare. So much to dismantle/remove before even gaining access.
Cars used to be so simple!

Alan

The quick change clutch is always one of the things that mechanics mention whenever I get into conversation about the MK3, normally saying that it was a fantastic piece of engineering.

It's been suggested to me that the reason why they changed it was that it was too easy and the dealers were making no money out of changing clutches.
I'm sure that's just pessimistic hearsay though.
Does anyone know for definite why they got rid of it when they did?
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Robsey
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Re: A Cav Diplomat clutch question

Post by Robsey »

James McGrath wrote: Does anyone know for definite why they got rid of it when they did?
I cannot say for definite, but I suspect it is to put people off from doing the clutch themselves.
Being so easy, the hatch method meant that even a half-trained baboon could do the job in under 30 minutes on his drive.

At least with the gearbox off method, many people will entrust it to the dealer.
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