The car was working fine until yesterday when the water pump seized, throwing the timing belt.
Although I've removed the pump's 3 bolts it's still stuck tight.
I can't turn the pump's pulley and, although I can get spanner on the pump's Hex body, I can't budge it.
Can anyone offer suggestions on how to get it out please?
Seized Cav Diplomat water pump
Re: Seized Cav Diplomat water pump
I would shock the pump loose.
It is simply seized on by dried coolant etc.
I would use a few moderate whacks with a wooden hammer handle or a mallet to break the seal.
Obviously don't use the steel head of the hammer. Simply to protect the block...the pump is bin-fodder anyway.
It is simply seized on by dried coolant etc.
I would use a few moderate whacks with a wooden hammer handle or a mallet to break the seal.
Obviously don't use the steel head of the hammer. Simply to protect the block...the pump is bin-fodder anyway.
Re: Seized Cav Diplomat water pump
Had a stuck pump on my old Astra and managed to get a piece of wood (about 18 inches long?) on the pump body and give the other end a bit of biffing!
Should be able to free it off.
Alan
Should be able to free it off.
Alan
Re: Seized Cav Diplomat water pump
Suppose I could have said -
Get a piece of wood,
hold one end towards the pump.
Then hit the other end with a hammer or mallet.
Get a piece of wood,
hold one end towards the pump.
Then hit the other end with a hammer or mallet.
Re: Seized Cav Diplomat water pump
I started by being optimistic and sprayed many times with releasing fluid. Zilch.
Then came a bit of wood. Used a hammer to bash the pump at various places but a half hour later I'd achieved nothing but splinters.
Then I did the same thing with a rectangular steel tube. That finally released the impeller, since the tube's edges fitted in the teeth and gave a solid hit, but the pump didn't budge.
A large adjustable fits on the pump's hex body but there's no space to apply much hand pressure to it. So I stood on the handle and jumped a few times. All that did was to move the engine down
I'm now on the lookout for a scaffold pole to fit over the spanner's handle so I can lever it from 1 or 2 metres away.
Since the problem's the result of 25 years aluminium corrosion of this original pump it makes it even less likely anyone else has had the same intensity of problem.
There's now only the rear timing belt cover standing in the way of applying brute force to the pump. Since its design requires the camshaft and crankshaft cogs removed to slide it off, I intend to cut it at both those points to flex it off so I won't need to get deeper into dismantling the engine.
At that point I have no more ideas!
Then came a bit of wood. Used a hammer to bash the pump at various places but a half hour later I'd achieved nothing but splinters.
Then I did the same thing with a rectangular steel tube. That finally released the impeller, since the tube's edges fitted in the teeth and gave a solid hit, but the pump didn't budge.
A large adjustable fits on the pump's hex body but there's no space to apply much hand pressure to it. So I stood on the handle and jumped a few times. All that did was to move the engine down
I'm now on the lookout for a scaffold pole to fit over the spanner's handle so I can lever it from 1 or 2 metres away.
Since the problem's the result of 25 years aluminium corrosion of this original pump it makes it even less likely anyone else has had the same intensity of problem.
There's now only the rear timing belt cover standing in the way of applying brute force to the pump. Since its design requires the camshaft and crankshaft cogs removed to slide it off, I intend to cut it at both those points to flex it off so I won't need to get deeper into dismantling the engine.
At that point I have no more ideas!
Re: Seized Cav Diplomat water pump
I had a similar problem on my mk2 Astra SRI ended up smashing the pump body to bits with a hammer & cold chisel it eventually submitted.
Re: Seized Cav Diplomat water pump
My concern up till now has been that using too much force could damage the aperture the pump fits in but, in the last resort, I'll have to take a risk.
Right now smashing it out seems the only practical solution.
Good idea, thanks!
Right now smashing it out seems the only practical solution.
Good idea, thanks!
Re: Seized Cav Diplomat water pump
I initially tried to turn it using the hammer & a piece of bar, but the alloy pump body started to break off so I just carried on. If you make sure you hit the pump it will be fine the block is pretty tough. When you fit the new pump put some anti-seize compound on the pump body but make sure you don't get any on the O-ring seal though it may affect it.
Re: Seized Cav Diplomat water pump
It's out!
I asked a friend who works for a local garage for his thoughts and he came over and hammered it out in 15 minutes with better tools than I have!
I feel a bit bad I couldn't have done this myself but sometimes experience and the right kit really counts.
If the replacement pump is OK, and it does look identical, and the valves are OK then the replacement belt should put that problem to bed.
Then all I have to do is check out the brakes.
When it was being towed home the pads overheated many times as I tried to keep a good distance between our cars. I hadn't appreciated what a difference a lack of servo made over the 5 miles home as my foot was hard down down on the brake all the time and braking was terrible.
I'd never have thought that a water pump would affect the brakes!
Many thanks for all the inputs!
I asked a friend who works for a local garage for his thoughts and he came over and hammered it out in 15 minutes with better tools than I have!
I feel a bit bad I couldn't have done this myself but sometimes experience and the right kit really counts.
If the replacement pump is OK, and it does look identical, and the valves are OK then the replacement belt should put that problem to bed.
Then all I have to do is check out the brakes.
When it was being towed home the pads overheated many times as I tried to keep a good distance between our cars. I hadn't appreciated what a difference a lack of servo made over the 5 miles home as my foot was hard down down on the brake all the time and braking was terrible.
I'd never have thought that a water pump would affect the brakes!
Many thanks for all the inputs!
Re: Seized Cav Diplomat water pump
The water pump wouldn't affect the brakes as such.
But as the engine was not running, it is not creating a vacuum for the brake servo.
So indirectly, lack of water pump would lead to a lack of braking effect.
Soon be good to go.
But as the engine was not running, it is not creating a vacuum for the brake servo.
So indirectly, lack of water pump would lead to a lack of braking effect.
Soon be good to go.
Re: Seized Cav Diplomat water pump
Sounds like your pump put up a bit of a fight!
Glad it submitted in round 6/7/8?!
Alan
Glad it submitted in round 6/7/8?!
Alan
Re: Seized Cav Diplomat water pump
...and the car's still fighting!
I just looked in the Haynes manual for the mk3 and it looks like the tensioner could be broken.
Although it will tension it doesn't work like the manual shows on page 2A17.
The triangular plate the tensioner securing bolt goes through to tighten it up when you're done has another hole the manual says you can move to adjust the tension.
Mine is just a plate that rotates without doing anything but I can adjust the tension by levering the pointed thing at the back.
Has anyone adjusted this type of tensioner and can say how it should work please?
I just looked in the Haynes manual for the mk3 and it looks like the tensioner could be broken.
Although it will tension it doesn't work like the manual shows on page 2A17.
The triangular plate the tensioner securing bolt goes through to tighten it up when you're done has another hole the manual says you can move to adjust the tension.
Mine is just a plate that rotates without doing anything but I can adjust the tension by levering the pointed thing at the back.
Has anyone adjusted this type of tensioner and can say how it should work please?
Re: Seized Cav Diplomat water pump
If it is the standard tensioner set up, look at stage 13 of this thread.
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=4047
Use the 5mm allen key to tighten the belt, and the 13mm spanner to tighten the centre bolt.
Turn the crankshaft bolt through two full revolutions and re-check the pointer position.
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=4047
Use the 5mm allen key to tighten the belt, and the 13mm spanner to tighten the centre bolt.
Turn the crankshaft bolt through two full revolutions and re-check the pointer position.
Re: Seized Cav Diplomat water pump
Thanks for that reference!
This is pretty conclusive that my tensioner is crook. The adjustment plate mentioned does nothing but rotate so its internal connection must be broken.
I had a feeling, because Haynes refers to two types of adjuster, that this may have been another one, although it does looks like the one Haynes shows in its line drawing.
The ones currently on sale have metal protrusions with different shapes but as long as one of them fits into the securing notch I guess it'll be OK.
Anyway, a new shape one's now ordered so I'll see!
This is pretty conclusive that my tensioner is crook. The adjustment plate mentioned does nothing but rotate so its internal connection must be broken.
I had a feeling, because Haynes refers to two types of adjuster, that this may have been another one, although it does looks like the one Haynes shows in its line drawing.
The ones currently on sale have metal protrusions with different shapes but as long as one of them fits into the securing notch I guess it'll be OK.
Anyway, a new shape one's now ordered so I'll see!
Re: Seized Cav Diplomat water pump
Probably this should be in the brakes section but it's related to the water pump, so here goes.
The front disks were covered in melted brake pad and there were areas in the pads where its material was missing.
A drill with a wire brush just polished the black mess so I had to revert to a paint scraper as only a razor blade could dig the stuff off.
However, the wire brush did a great job after the pad material was scraped off and the disks ended up looking really good.
The car had broken down a few days before its MOT was due and it's now expired.
I fitted new pads but I'll have to wait till I drive to the MOT to really test them.
I hadn't thought of brake problems as a consequence of being towed.
Never again!
The front disks were covered in melted brake pad and there were areas in the pads where its material was missing.
A drill with a wire brush just polished the black mess so I had to revert to a paint scraper as only a razor blade could dig the stuff off.
However, the wire brush did a great job after the pad material was scraped off and the disks ended up looking really good.
The car had broken down a few days before its MOT was due and it's now expired.
I fitted new pads but I'll have to wait till I drive to the MOT to really test them.
I hadn't thought of brake problems as a consequence of being towed.
Never again!
Re: Seized Cav Diplomat water pump
Sounds like a whole lot of the car had seized up.
Ordinarily towing would not cause issues, however I presume you brakes were faulty anyway before the car was towed.
Have you checked that all brake assemblies now work properly, and that all wheel spin freely with the brakes off.
I suspect that your car is one hell of an interesting (challenging) project.
I am sure that the MOT will high-light any other areas requiring attention.
How about the water pump, tensioner and timing belt?
Are they now fitted and set up / working correctly?
Ordinarily towing would not cause issues, however I presume you brakes were faulty anyway before the car was towed.
Have you checked that all brake assemblies now work properly, and that all wheel spin freely with the brakes off.
I suspect that your car is one hell of an interesting (challenging) project.
I am sure that the MOT will high-light any other areas requiring attention.
How about the water pump, tensioner and timing belt?
Are they now fitted and set up / working correctly?
Re: Seized Cav Diplomat water pump
It is becoming a project!
The brake pistons look to be OK ,and all caliper movement is fine and all wheels rotate with no noises or binding.
I bought the now-damaged pads as original old Vauxhall stock and, since I assume brake pad materials changed a lot over the years, newer pads may have behaved differently.
I had fitted these "original" pads to get to the bottom of uneven braking quite a while ago. That problem was the ABS but I never refitted the pads that had previously been in use. Life may have been so different if I had! Those pads are now fitted and have only a few mm wear. Actually the damaged ones weren't that much thinner surprisingly.
With the new water pump the temperature rises gradually to around 90C and then drops a bit when the thermostat opens so it seems to be behaving normally. The new tensioner and belt run well.
The brake fluid tester indicates water content's fine but I can't explain why its level is now quite a bit higher than originally.
I will change the brake fluid as the pedal goes much lower than usual, something else I can't explain!
The brake pistons look to be OK ,and all caliper movement is fine and all wheels rotate with no noises or binding.
I bought the now-damaged pads as original old Vauxhall stock and, since I assume brake pad materials changed a lot over the years, newer pads may have behaved differently.
I had fitted these "original" pads to get to the bottom of uneven braking quite a while ago. That problem was the ABS but I never refitted the pads that had previously been in use. Life may have been so different if I had! Those pads are now fitted and have only a few mm wear. Actually the damaged ones weren't that much thinner surprisingly.
With the new water pump the temperature rises gradually to around 90C and then drops a bit when the thermostat opens so it seems to be behaving normally. The new tensioner and belt run well.
The brake fluid tester indicates water content's fine but I can't explain why its level is now quite a bit higher than originally.
I will change the brake fluid as the pedal goes much lower than usual, something else I can't explain!