Tip's for C18NZ Engine's

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Envoy CDX
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Tip's for C18NZ Engine's

Post by Envoy CDX »

Hi there, a lot of people tend to go on about mods and general maintenance tips for the bigger louder engines, and overlook the smaller workhorse engines.

This thread will be dedicated to the C18NZ - a cracking engine when looked after (as with any engine really)

I will update the thread as and when I find new things (and when I have time to type all the things I've learned so far.)

I use the following when doing a full service

5w40 Mineral Oil from Halfords / 10w40 Semi Synth GM (£13 on trade :) )
HAL201 Oil Filter or VOF93 (£1.50ish trade)
GM OEM Plugs (£4.85ish trade)
Bosch HT Leads (Halfords Trade Card - £17 as opposed to £34)
Genuine GM Panel Filter (£5.60ish Trade)

Top tip 1.
If our car is idling roughly try removing the pipe from the EGR valve and blocking it with your thumb to see it it improves at all - worked wonders with my idling. Permanently blocked the pipe up with a trim screw.

Top tip 2.
Check your oil breather pipes - Mine where filled with so much crud they will all have to be replaced in time - make sure the pipes aren't cracking at the ends as this can lead to problems later on (i.e. bursting hoses).

Tip 3. Submitted by Shrink.

another tip...

there's a pipe leading from just above the manifold back into your air box, this helps with cold starts and pulls some warm air back into the engine, but the rest of the time it can end up trickling small amounts of warm air back into your breathing system

so try taking the hose off the manifold cover, and routing it into the front of the car so that it gets a cold air feed, doesn't do any harm and in some cases can do some good.

More to come..
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Envoy CDX
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Re: Tip's for C18NZ Engine's

Post by Envoy CDX »

Another tip (originally posted by Shrink)

if you want to take advantage of super unleaded, get the 95/97 ron plug from a 2.0 8v or early XE and put it in place of the 93/95 plug that comes as standard with all 1.8's

if you run super unleaded fuel on a standard ron plug, it will just piss it away at an alarming rate, change the plug and you will get better performance and better fuel economy.
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Redorado
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Re: Tip's for C18NZ Engine's

Post by Redorado »

Envoy CDX wrote:Another tip (originally posted by Shrink)

if you want to take advantage of super unleaded, get the 95/97 ron plug from a 2.0 8v or early XE and put it in place of the 93/95 plug that comes as standard with all 1.8's

if you run super unleaded fuel on a standard ron plug, it will just piss it away at an alarming rate, change the plug and you will get better performance and better fuel economy.
whats the ron plug ?
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Re: Tip's for C18NZ Engine's

Post by Gaz »

the blown/black plug with A & B or 96/98
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Re: Tip's for C18NZ Engine's

Post by Colorado »

Definatly good to do your breather pipes mine were well blocked up
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Re: Tip's for C18NZ Engine's

Post by Adamw5433 »

Envoy CDX wrote: 5w40 Mineral Oil from Halfords
HAL201 Oil Filter
Bosch Super 4 Spark Plugs
Generic HT Leads (Going to try some BOSCH ones next service)
Halfords panel filter
Coolant and Antifreeze will be done summer / winter rotations from now on.
I use:

Oil: 10w40 B3 Castrol Magnatec, seems to work fairly good. I cannot report any problems...
Filter: Vauxhall VOF93 oil filter, (Vaux part number: 93156954) Again cannot report any problems...
Spark Plugs: Bosch Super 4 Spark Plugs, Seems to have improved running conditions, reduced mis-firing and completely removed idle speed stalls.
HT Leads: Generic OEM HT leads, Seems to have improved performance over the original HT leads, has reduced mis-firing and idle tick over.
Air Filter: K&N Induction kit, Has made the engine more lively but has increased engine noise (not always a bad thing)
Coolant and Antifreeze:, 40% Anti-freeze from work, 60% de-inronized water again for work... Somehow lowered operating temp compared to 100% tap water


Adam
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Envoy CDX
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Re: Tip's for C18NZ Engine's

Post by Envoy CDX »

Adamw5433 wrote:
Envoy CDX wrote: 5w40 Mineral Oil from Halfords
HAL201 Oil Filter
Bosch Super 4 Spark Plugs
Generic HT Leads (Going to try some BOSCH ones next service)
Halfords panel filter
Coolant and Antifreeze will be done summer / winter rotations from now on.
I use:

Oil: 10w40 B3 Castrol Magnatec, seems to work fairly good. I cannot report any problems...
Filter: Vauxhall VOF93 oil filter, (Vaux part number: 93156954) Again cannot report any problems...
Spark Plugs: Bosch Super 4 Spark Plugs, Seems to have improved running conditions, reduced mis-firing and completely removed idle speed stalls.
HT Leads: Generic OEM HT leads, Seems to have improved performance over the original HT leads, has reduced mis-firing and idle tick over.
Air Filter: K&N Induction kit, Has made the engine more lively but has increased engine noise (not always a bad thing)
Coolant and Antifreeze:, 40% Anti-freeze from work, 60% de-inronized water again for work... Somehow lowered operating temp compared to 100% tap water



Adam
My list is to be revised shortly ;)
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dave's.veccy
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Re: Tip's for C18NZ Engine's

Post by dave's.veccy »

With modern anti freezes, summer/winter rotations are a waste of money and time
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Re: Tip's for C18NZ Engine's

Post by Envoy CDX »

updated now ;)
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Re: Tip's for C18NZ Engine's

Post by Redorado »

So just thinking if there was a wish list for the c18nz to get the most out of them. what would it be ?

just to throw my unfounded idea's (licence for ya to flame away :D )

Blanced Crank?
polished head/ports?
lightend/balanced flywheel?
normal exhaust stuff (decat pipe and the such)
improved air induction?
conversion to mpi or carbs (dont know if possible)
upgraded cam? (dont know if any available)

would the engine even cope with

low compression pistons
supercharger or turbo?

mind you i'd hate to think what just the above n/a tuning would cost even before looking at forced induction
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Re: Tip's for C18NZ Engine's

Post by Squig »

Piper state they do a full cam kit, valve springs, camshaft, follows and hydraulic lifters but seem a little sketchy on the website about price... as well as a vernier pulley. Reckon on £200-£600 dependant on exactly what is wanted, for 10bhp but a whole hell of a lot of grin factor.

Carb conversion is tried and tested, and I'm pretty sure you could MPi it... but it would seem that any and all tuning methods that are applied to the c20seh/ne/whatever other 8v derivation, would be applicable to the c18nz, albeit with a slightly reduced power/torque result under it's 2 litre brother. Owners that swap out this great little 8v are missing a trick.
What I'm saying, really, is that with the whole 8v range of Vauxhall motors, the sky/budget is the limit with tuning... and yes the engine can cope with low pressure FI setup... ooh, supercharged low pressure 1.8 8v on DCOE carb setup! Torque steer, anyone?
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Re: Tip's for C18NZ Engine's

Post by dave's.veccy »

I know NE/SEH fuel injection doesnt work straight off on a SV but unsure about the NZ

Another cheap possiblity for a cam is a SEH cam which is practically a fast road cam ;)
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Re: Tip's for C18NZ Engine's

Post by Redorado »

hmmm i smell a project engine coming along with the project cav.

i think at the mo i'm going to keep the current engine in the car as is, and i'm going to enquire about getting ahold of a replacement 1.8 to take to bits and rebuild. :D

So just also wondering how did Vauxhall change the 8v engines to give different sizes, as i know for example that the 1.4 Tu engine in my pug306 is the same as the 1.6 but just a change on stroke length iirc , but then the K-series rovers 1.6&1.8's are changed via rebores of the cyclinder liners.

does it look like this is the piper cam kit in question?
http://www.pipercams.co.uk/NewPiperWeb/ ... vaux32.pdf
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Re: Tip's for C18NZ Engine's

Post by 1800lsi »

Got a 1800 8 valve lump in my cav. really is gutless at the mo so gunna be keeping a eye on this thread for updates :D
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Re: Tip's for C18NZ Engine's

Post by dave's.veccy »

The difference is in the bores and larger pistons for larger engines
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Re: Tip's for C18NZ Engine's

Post by Envoy CDX »

Right, a few things you can do if you have the time and energy

18E / 18SE head will drop onto the block without any issues allowing you to have an MPi setup - can't just bolt on the manifolds - they don't fit, the stud aligning is wrong for a start.

Similarly, to go carb, you could bolt down an 18SV head - IF you can find one.


One thing I want to try is a 20SEH cam in my 18SE MPi engine, but unfortunatly, cash doesn't permit that right now, and I need to get it running as it should before i start tinkering really.

Anyhow, the SPI fuel pump whilst it will run the engine will not deliver enough fuel for you to get the full potental out of it, been down this route (and acquired a SRi 2litre fuel pump :lol: ).
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Re: Tip's for C18NZ Engine's

Post by Envoy CDX »

Redorado wrote:
So just also wondering how did Vauxhall change the 8v engines to give different sizes, as i know for example that the 1.4 Tu engine in my pug306 is the same as the 1.6 but just a change on stroke length iirc , but then the K-series rovers 1.6&1.8's are changed via rebores of the cyclinder liners.
Just different bore sizes on the block I believe.
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Re: Tip's for C18NZ Engine's

Post by Redorado »

i've been started to do some reading up on supercharging and came across this

http://www.mg-tabc.org/supercharger/Shorrock_ABC.pdf

although it's aimed at the sc'ing of an original mini, the principals should be the same.

i'm thinking of starting on a low boost version initially and working on from there, this way i can keep the majority of internals the same with maybe just a thicker headgasket.

i think the interesting bit really at the mo would be the build and were it would all fit, and the gearing of the sc to produce the low boost.

i've still got a ton of un answered questions, like could i get away with keeping the spi but just moving the location so its up on the intake to the sc?, but then thats the fun of all of this :)
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Re: Tip's for C18NZ Engine's

Post by Envoy CDX »

Well supercharging - i don't know anything about, but I was considering a 2litre turbo kit on the 18SE I have :)
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Tip's for C18NZ Engine's

Post by Redorado »

:D i'm looking forward to blowing up my first engine :lol:
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Re: Tip's for C18NZ Engine's

Post by dave's.veccy »

dont any of you lot come to me when the SC has blown the engine away :lol:
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Re: Tip's for C18NZ Engine's

Post by Squig »

Redorado wrote:i've been started to do some reading up on supercharging and came across this

http://www.mg-tabc.org/supercharger/Shorrock_ABC.pdf

although it's aimed at the sc'ing of an original mini, the principals should be the same.

i'm thinking of starting on a low boost version initially and working on from there, this way i can keep the majority of internals the same with maybe just a thicker headgasket.

i think the interesting bit really at the mo would be the build and were it would all fit, and the gearing of the sc to produce the low boost.

i've still got a ton of un answered questions, like could i get away with keeping the spi but just moving the location so its up on the intake to the sc?, but then thats the fun of all of this :)

Principles are similar...
Supercharges tend to be more effective and efficient at lower boost pressures... but M45 (mini "roots" type supercharger I think) can flow 310cfm at 14,000rpm (@2:1 that is 7000rpm engine speed), a merc M62 will flow 440cfm again @14,000rpm,and should see maybe 150-170bhp with M45 and 230-250bhp with M62 (probably snap a conrod or blow the head off and quickly too), bear in mind that the number refers to the cubic inches the 'charger displaces per revolution... I'd start with M45 @ 2:1 and then you can machine various alternate pulley sizes to vary the boost/airflow, as with turbos there is a limit to the airflow a charger will generate as it will drop hugely in efficiency and lose power.

"As a stand-alone head gasket thickness should be a maximum of 1.6mm - much over this & it becomes more of a thick metal plate and less of a gasket." - Ferriday Engineering; answer is use a plate of appropriate thickness calculated by...:
1. Find original Compression Ratio (CR)...
2. Find stroke (S)...
3. Find bore (B)...
4. Find head gasket thickness, or an approximate...
5. Use your manners to ask Squig if he'll calculate it for you cos he knows the formula which he can't be arsed typing in ascii...
;)
And yes on an inline engine the plate method is the way forward, 2 head gaskets one plate... try and get a newer M45 (or M62 off a merk) don't bother with the clutched crap (although the electronic clutch is a nice feature it stands to reason the car will lose power when not on boost, and when would you not want to be on boost) but more to the point the newer Eatons have greater efficiency due to tefon coatings and snazzy stuff, also try to find a supercharger with a pneumatic accuator and a second smaller butterfly...
Assumed yes to the SPi query but may be better to convert to MPi... don't know how easy to change to MPi thou...
However with an intercooler and routing to the original manifold minus throttle body (not seen the SPi setup) would potentially negate the need to move the injector and allow for an intercooler after the 'charger (yes, there is "point" to adding an intercooler to the system, less so than turbos but nevertheless...).
The 2 mentioned Eaton superchargers would be suitable to run on 2:1 pulley ratio but think in CFM as opposed to psi... it's easier with supercharging.
:D

Dave your a pessimist :lol:
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Re: Tip's for C18NZ Engine's

Post by dave's.veccy »

:lol:

Large word for friday :lol:
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Re: Tip's for C18NZ Engine's

Post by Redorado »

Squig wrote:

Principles are similar...
Supercharges tend to be more effective and efficient at lower boost pressures... but M45 (mini "roots" type supercharger I think) can flow 310cfm at 14,000rpm (@2:1 that is 7000rpm engine speed), a merc M62 will flow 440cfm again @14,000rpm,and should see maybe 150-170bhp with M45 and 230-250bhp with M62 (probably snap a conrod or blow the head off and quickly too), bear in mind that the number refers to the cubic inches the 'charger displaces per revolution... I'd start with M45 @ 2:1 and then you can machine various alternate pulley sizes to vary the boost/airflow, as with turbos there is a limit to the airflow a charger will generate as it will drop hugely in efficiency and lose power.

"As a stand-alone head gasket thickness should be a maximum of 1.6mm - much over this & it becomes more of a thick metal plate and less of a gasket." - Ferriday Engineering; answer is use a plate of appropriate thickness calculated by...:
1. Find original Compression Ratio (CR)...
2. Find stroke (S)...
3. Find bore (B)...
4. Find head gasket thickness, or an approximate...
5. Use your manners to ask Squig if he'll calculate it for you cos he knows the formula which he can't be arsed typing in ascii...
;)
And yes on an inline engine the plate method is the way forward, 2 head gaskets one plate... try and get a newer M45 (or M62 off a merk) don't bother with the clutched crap (although the electronic clutch is a nice feature it stands to reason the car will lose power when not on boost, and when would you not want to be on boost) but more to the point the newer Eatons have greater efficiency due to tefon coatings and snazzy stuff, also try to find a supercharger with a pneumatic accuator and a second smaller butterfly...
Assumed yes to the SPi query but may be better to convert to MPi... don't know how easy to change to MPi thou...
However with an intercooler and routing to the original manifold minus throttle body (not seen the SPi setup) would potentially negate the need to move the injector and allow for an intercooler after the 'charger (yes, there is "point" to adding an intercooler to the system, less so than turbos but nevertheless...).
The 2 mentioned Eaton superchargers would be suitable to run on 2:1 pulley ratio but think in CFM as opposed to psi... it's easier with supercharging.
:D

Dave your a pessimist :lol:
wow :shock: this is fantastic, i think i'll have to employ some manners soon :)
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Re: Tip's for C18NZ Engine's

Post by Squig »

Bore @ 84.8
Stroke @ 79.5
CR (important bit as assumed that yours is definitely the C18NZ) @ 9.2:1
Assumed Head gasket thickness: irrelevant for this explanation...
Get either a thicker copper head-gasket from Ferriday or a 2 thinner ones and a very thin plate as you only want to add 0.3mm to the head gasket thickness... time to measure that gasket, or just call Ferriday and explain you need .3mm adding to the standard thickness and see what they say... or any other gasket company.
this should drop the CR to 8.6:1... and the cc to just over 1800 :D

Just say thanks ;)
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