Paint basics

[Telegram Sam]

Technical man I know who works in the paint industry tells me that "polyurethane acrylic" (i.e. not urethanes and not acrylics) paints are better at resisting stone chipping than others. I am wondering if it is possible to get an aerosol of PUA glacier white 10 L from somewhere before this becomes an endangered species? Halfords apart there are not a lot of local paint suppliers that I know of to choose from.

[sribobby]

Ebay?? Just a random guess tho

[Envoy CDX]

Never heard the term before myself.

[Robsey]

I have seen information on acrylic polyurethane paint.

Dulux make this for painting wood.

If it helps, it is often called 2-pack paint.
But not the 2 pack that I normally associate with car coatings.

I have a manual in my office upstairs for vehicle paints and preparations.
It does not mention this chemical formulation...


And contrary to your comment Iain - by it's name, polyurethane acrylic contains both chemicals... not neither of them as you state.

[Robsey]

If you want chip resistance, try a coating of truck bed paint, which is chip and scratch resistant.

Then cover it in your desired colour...

[Telegram Sam]

by it's name, polyurethane acrylic contains both chemicals... not neither of them as you state

That's what I was trying to say - but I'm not a chemist. Still no joy in tracking it down.

"truck bed paint" Never heard of it. Where does it live? What does it do (provide sleeping facilities for trucks)? Is it a primer?

[Robsey]

It is an Americanised term...
This is a truck bed.



You can see it has been lined with a grey liner. This can be a plastic liner or a durable paint such as UPOL Raptor.

This protects the body from impact or scraping damage caused by items being loaded into the vehicle.

This is what has been used on the whole of my floor pan in the Cavalier both inside and underneath.



The finished interior will be over-painted in Polar Sea Blue paint.

This would also work well on a front valance at risk of stone chip damage.

[Robsey]

This is what the blurb says about UPOL Raptor.

U-POL’s RAPTOR Truck Bed Liner is a durable 2K polyurethane coating that provides surfaces with a protective barrier.

[humbucker]

So in other words, shit bounces off it. I must have skipped the post in your project thread where you talked about coating the underside of the car in the stuff. Interesting.

[Robsey]

Indeed - one of the many protective layers underneath.
The U-POL acts as an over-coat to the mastic under-seal and gives stone-chip protection.

You will see in my WIP pictures where the suspension has been fitted, that the same satin black paint finish is evident in the arches and everywhere else underneath.

I am sure it is easy to miss loads of stuff on the WIP, between all my inane ramblings.

[Telegram Sam]

Do I detect Troy's hand in this somewhere???

Very appropriate content and timing in view of what I am faced with now. I will copy what you have said and let Mike Bonello see it.

I take it that you are happy that Raptor doesn't act as a moisture trap as some "underseals" evidently do.

[Robsey]

Troy has had more than a hand in this... He has done all of the welding, treatments and coatings of the car, except the final paintwork which has been subcontracted out. And the powder coating of all the suspension and running gear which I have arranged - again under the advice of Troy.

He has given me good advice on products and how they are used.

As much "accessible" rust as possible has been cut out and chemically treated.

The workshop is modestly dry, and as far as practicable minimal moisture has been present during the coating procedures.

All cavities and difficult to access areas have been treated with a very thin liquid cavity wax which displaces moisture and seeps into all seems by capillary action.

There is no 100% guarantee that moisture will have been totally eradicated but every possible measure to stave off the tin worm has been employed.

There is also a plan to have an annual check for corrosion etc and further injections of liquid cavity wax to prolong the life of Troy's excellent work for as long as possible.

[Telegram Sam]

Sounds like "better than new" (which as far as some stages in Vauxhall history are concerned might not be that difficult to achieve )

[Robsey]

You have obviously never owned a Ford Transit.

They leave the factory with no corrosion protection whatsoever.

As technologies improve, so does the longevity of corrosion resistance.

Every manufacturer has had corrosion issues at one time or another..
Consider all Alfasuds made in the early eighties from very poor steel, and even the very early nineties Mercedes 190s suffered premature subframe corrosion.

[Telegram Sam]

I have obviously never owned a Ford Transit (nor Alfasud nor Merc 190), and I suspect that 90/91 was not a glorious stage in Vauxhall's progress in anti-corrosion development either. The interesting topic is, as you / we have now broached it, what the best means are to make the best of (preserve) what we've got.

[Robsey]

More or less what Troy has done...

Work in a dry environment to keep ambient moisture to a minimum.

Get rid of or neutralise as much corrosion as possible.

Ensure that any new metal is protected as soon as possible to avoid flash corrosion.
Much easier if using Zintec steel.

Plenty of high-zinc paint...

Then seal any joints or flanges with epoxy mastic.
You will be wasting your time if you add sealant in a damp workshop / environment.

Beyond that it is up to you.

[Telegram Sam]

You were about to mention re-shelling also!

[Robsey]

Nope - I have never mentioned re-shelling.

In my opinion - reshelling is one step beyond a car being worth saving.

Bear in mind that initially my Cav was considered "not that bad" by Troy and so it was felt worth repairing.

Only after peeling back all the layers, did he realise that is was the second worst he'd ever seen. The worst was scrapped.

Had there been little time and money invested already by that point, I think my cav would also have been scrapped.

But a lot of Troy's time and my parts money had already been invested, so it was felt that we had gone too far to simply give up and scrap the old girl.

Naively I thought that for under a grand (plus paint), I would have a reasonably solid car to get me through another 4 or 5 years.

It is a matter of how thorough / OCD / wrapped up you get in the restoration.

Quite by accident and an apparent snow-ball effect of repairs and parts, I am now looking at the dirty side of £6000.
BUT the car should be far more solid than it has been for about 10 years.

Yes rust will still show it's ugly head in due course... to be expected for a car that has not been dipped.
But hopefully it will be able to last far longer than many other Cavaliers out there today

[Telegram Sam]

Desperate times call for desperate measures .... Troy might have re-welded mine, given time, but the man here reckons that re-shelling would be the better option.

Much of what you say and describe applies here also (except that you were luckily spared the loss of getting ripped off). Once you bite the bullet and decide to "invest" (= restore) you are committed / on the treadmill.

Against which my view is that in such circs you cannot blindly apply simple financial £££'s in and £££'s out reasoning and criteria, otherwise we'd all drive around in Mondeo's and Prius's and things. Less than a week ago a guy in a BMW waiting behind me in a queue jumped out, knocked on my door and asked how much I'd sell it for. The boost to my ego can't be measured in LSD!

[Robsey]

If you read my recent comments in my WIP, you will find that some of the financial disillusionment was due to getting used not having the Cav around for many months.
Throwing money at something you cannot see and feel because it is some 15 miles away - and to be brutally honest, I no longer cared about.

My wife has been the driving force behind the restoration from before day one, and has always identified a more personal importance to the car which we have owned for nearly all of it's 22 year "life".

So yes - I am painfully aware that an LS hatchback will never be financially worth much over a tenth of the outlay lavished upon it.
But hopefully driving the old girl again soon should hopefully make the whole thing emotionally worthwhile.

As an SRi, yours is considered a more "worthy" project both in prestige and financial worth.

[Telegram Sam]

It would be nice to think that your last sentence would wash off on the owner as well, but I fear not.

Sounds like your Mrs and me have a few things in common.

Artic (as in HGV, not Arctic) White applied yesterday to bodywork. Seems to be the same as Glacier White as folk had predicted.

If plans go ahead I could also be faced with being without the car for quite some time during restoration - exactly 15 miles away. Uncanny.

[Telegram Sam]

This is what the blurb says about UPOL Raptor.

U-POL’s RAPTOR Truck Bed Liner is a durable 2K polyurethane coating that provides surfaces with a protective barrier.

Can this be DIY-applied with a spray gun to patch up stone chips in the paint, or is it a heavyweight all-or-nothing type job?

[Robsey]

I am sure it can be thinned enough to allow it to be sprayed, but mine was brushed on.

I prefer the up close brush on method, as it is less likely for runs or missed patches to occur.

Although I can appreciate that brushing on is painfully slow and tedious.

[Telegram Sam]

I have come to the conclusion that I don't have the ability to apply paint by brush such that the surface is as smooth as the surrounding area. Aerosols to the rescue. Can you get DIY spray guns suitable for small applications of stuff like Raptor?

[Robsey]

There are air-less sprayers available.
I have an electric pumped sprayer in my shed.

If you want application technique information, then YouTube appears to be your friend.
Simply searching google for "raptor spray" will dig up loads of Yankie-land videos.