A note about catalytic converters

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James McGrath
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A note about catalytic converters

Post by James McGrath »

I've been buying rather allot of catalytic converters lately.
Four of our six Cavs have had replacement cats in the last year in fact. :?
These failures have been caused by; one count of old age, two cases of rich running (1 bad O2 sensor, 1 bad knock sensor) and one failed (as far as I can tell) simply because it was an awful part fitted by the previous owner.

So I've had a few chances now to sample what's available on the market and to get things right.

First of all, it is absolutely not worth getting a cheep non-type approved part. They have hardly any substrate in them, usually very badly constructed and are way too small possibly hampering engine power.

Here is a visual comparison between a type approved part and a non type approved part both for the same car (C20NE).
These are both made by the same company; BM catalysts.

Type approved top
Non-type approved bottom
Image

As you can see, both come with an integral heat shield and overall they look fairly similar.
Look more closely however and you begin to see differences.
The type approved part seems to be made from higher grade steel and is better constructed in general.

Here you can see the type approved part (right) has flanges that are thicker and more heavy duty:

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Take a look at the welding and you'll see that the type approved part has a casing that is welded together all the way round rather than just pressed and spot welded:

Image

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They weigh differently too. These are just bathroom scales so they aren't very accurate but it gives you an idea of the difference between the two:

Non-type approved (1Kg approx.):

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Type approved (2Kg approx.):

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Both of these parts are advertised as weighing 2.6Kg by the way.

Now, on to the most important part of a catalytic converter, the substrate.
If the difference in weight of these two items didn't give the game away already, have a look at this:

Type approved:
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Non-type approved:

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Side by side:

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On the non-type approved part, the substrate doesn't start until about 6.1 inches (15.5 cm) into the casing:

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On the type approved it starts at about 4.5 inches (11.5 cm).

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I recon the type approved part has at least twice the substrate inside.

Now this may sound like it's good right?
Well lets compare it to an original part fitted from the factory, again this is for the same car (C20NE) and holds the GM part number 25130233:

Image

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This original part is gargantuan in comparison. It weighs about 5Kg maybe more, is about twice the diameter and is packed with substrate from one end to the other.
Surely even the type approved after market part couldn't do the job as well as this could?


Now on to the second part.
Twice, in the search for a replacement cat, have I been miss-sold the wrong part by a salesman.
One, I specifically asked the seller beforehand 'is this part type approved' only for them to send me a non type approved part. When I confronted them, they said that the part I wanted was no longer available. Thanks for letting me know beforehand!

The level of customer service with most of the sellers I've dealt with was atrocious. Now I'm not saying they are all like this, I think I just got a couple of bad eggs, but it doesn't instill me with a lot of confidence in the industry.
Every time I came to a supplier with the simple question of 'Do you have this specific part available'
I was greeted with the reply of 'what's your reg no.'
This is not answering the question and is of no help to me at all, especially as the reg number alone is not enough to identify the correct part for the car I was looking for (My C16NZ2 engined LS if often mistaken for a C16NZ on many parts systems).
After trying to explain this to them I'm normally met with exactly the same response.

Another time, I ordered a part that was advertised as a BM part only for one made by ECC to turn up.
To be honest, I think this was a bit of an upgrade as it seems generally a bit nicer than the BM one above.
Note the BM part number on the packaging (90063H):

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Printed on the part itself it had an ECC part number:

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I measured the substrate on this as well. It has slightly different proportions to the BM part so it's not directly comparable but this gives you an idea:

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So there you have it.
If you are looking for a new catalytic converter, make sure you're getting the part you ordered, make sure it's a type-approved one and ECC are slightly better than BM.
Also, if you can, get one made up for you at an exhaust specialist. It's the only way to get anywhere near OE quality.
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Robsey
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Re: A note about catalytic converters

Post by Robsey »

Excellent information there James.

My current cat lasted less than a year..
or should I say that I had it fitted after my MOT failure in 2018.
And it was showing as being quite ineffective at my 2019 MOT.

I have until March 2020 to get a suitable replacement.

Such a crazy minefield.
It will be interesting to see how your ECC cat fairs over the next 12 months.
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James McGrath
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Re: A note about catalytic converters

Post by James McGrath »

I'll be able to tell you how both the BM and ECC ones go.
The BM cat is on my Dad's CD hatch and the ECC is on Lizzie's CD hatch.

Not really a fair test as Lizzie does about 16,000 miles a year and my Dad is retired!
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Mk3alan
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Re: A note about catalytic converters

Post by Mk3alan »

Excellent research there James!
What a minefield. I remember when cats were introduced and thinking that general life was going to be in the region of about 3 years but I have found that original fitment units are pretty good.
My CD isn't fitted with a CAT but my 98 Astra is (94k) and my wife's 02 MINI is (100k) both vehicles are still fitted with original parts and are still performing well according to the MOT.
What we need is new old stock original parts!

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Re: A note about catalytic converters

Post by dorsetdave »

Great information, thanks.
My 2.0 8V LS has always had a problem getting through the emissions. It still has only 49k miles on it and I have the full service history from new. The cat was replaced just before I bought the car in 2013 at 41K miles. The person who looks after and services the cars for me has gone through most things but it didn't seem to help with the emissions. As a last resort the cat was changed, last week, for a B&M premium ( that's how it is described by our local exhaust factors). Result - car passed MOT today for the first time with text book readings. The one that was fitted in 2013 looked clean and free from damage but has been binned so I can't check it's I.D.
I suppose next year will be the time to start being pleased if it all hangs together!
1993 LS 2.0 8V auto Saloon. Satin Red
1994 CD 2.0 8V auto Hatch. Nautilus
1986 1.8i auto cabrio only 8000 miles. Polar white
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Re: A note about catalytic converters

Post by GP123 »

Good read there as i am in the process of buying bits for my new exhaust for the v6. Im not sure if the cat has ever been changed or does need changed but i am doing so anyway as the rest of the exhuast needs refreshed as its seen better days...

I got the type approved one for £59 delivered.

Image

Seems decent anyway. They come with 2 years warranty, but do recommend a new lambda o2 sensor which i was for doing anyway.
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James McGrath
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Re: A note about catalytic converters

Post by James McGrath »

Blast!
Lizzie's CD has just failed it's MOT on emissions.
That's the one that was fitted with the Type approved ECC catalyst in the last photo.

Readings were:
CO - 0.34%
HC - 11ppm
Lambda - 0.996

So looks like the catalyst is at fault.
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Robsey
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Re: A note about catalytic converters

Post by Robsey »

Oh chuff...
That is not good.
You would hope that a type approved cat would last a lot longer than that :(
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James McGrath
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Re: A note about catalytic converters

Post by James McGrath »

Absolutely, and considering the events of the last 18 months it has only really had one full year of use.

It does make me suspect that the car is over-fueling somehow and destroying the cat.
It's running perfectly though, doesn't have any petrol smells and has been very good on fuel.

As in the photos above, these type approved cats, although way better than the non-type approved, are tiny when compared to the originals.
I reckon they have about 1/4 of the substrate in them.
They really don't make them like they used to.
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vexorg
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Re: A note about catalytic converters

Post by vexorg »

Might be a "sports" cat
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Re: A note about catalytic converters

Post by cavalier1990 »

Going by the failure of the ECC cat James do you think it's better sticking with the BM type approved one?

My mot on my 1.8 is due in Nov and the only thing I've never renewed is the cat, I tried substituting the 1.8 cat with the one off my diplomat, and I think that was an aftermarket repalcement years ago. While it did "improve" the emissions, it still failed overall.
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James McGrath
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Re: A note about catalytic converters

Post by James McGrath »

cavalier1990 wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:28 am Going by the failure of the ECC cat James do you think it's better sticking with the BM type approved one?

My mot on my 1.8 is due in Nov and the only thing I've never renewed is the cat, I tried substituting the 1.8 cat with the one off my diplomat, and I think that was an aftermarket repalcement years ago. While it did "improve" the emissions, it still failed overall.
Yep, the BM one was fitted to my dad's CD manual and that flew through its emissions test this year.

Failed on everything else but the emissions were good! :lol:
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Re: A note about catalytic converters

Post by cavalier1990 »

James McGrath wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:35 pm
cavalier1990 wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:28 am Going by the failure of the ECC cat James do you think it's better sticking with the BM type approved one?

My mot on my 1.8 is due in Nov and the only thing I've never renewed is the cat, I tried substituting the 1.8 cat with the one off my diplomat, and I think that was an aftermarket repalcement years ago. While it did "improve" the emissions, it still failed overall.
Yep, the BM one was fitted to my dad's CD manual and that flew through its emissions test this year.

Failed on everything else but the emissions were good! :lol:
Lol, hope that doesn't happen to me, would be typical, every year dodgy emissions but the rest of it ok. I went and got a BM type approved cat, so fingers crossed.
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Re: A note about catalytic converters

Post by Robsey »

I have had my bm cat for two years...
Still not fitted it, but then the car has been sorned for 18 months :(
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Re: A note about catalytic converters

Post by cavalier1990 »

Certainly after fitting that new BM type approved cat the exhaust doesn't have that slightly rich smell anymore. It used to be if you started it first thing, and you were downwind of it, like if I walked down my drive to the garage away from the car, you could smell it no end, now nothing so that's got to be a good fix.
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James McGrath
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Re: A note about catalytic converters

Post by James McGrath »

Well the BM type approved cat fitted to my V6 has failed catastrophically. The substrate is breaking up and making an awful rattling noise. It lasted around 5 and a half years doing around 2000 to 3000 miles a year.
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Re: A note about catalytic converters

Post by Robsey »

Oh blimey...
That is grim news,
but that is four years longer than most other aftermarket catalytic converters.

It is a shame they don't last like the originals.
My original lasted 18 1/2 years.
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James McGrath
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Re: A note about catalytic converters

Post by James McGrath »

I saw a genuine GM cat on eBay for £370. Was very tempted but it sold before I had a chance to buy it.

I've just bought another BM type approved cat, hopefully it will last another 5 years.

I'm not sure how long these BM and EEC cats will be around so not sure what I'll do next time. I have seen higher quality universal fit catalysts for sale but they are few and far between. Universal cats are only legal for pre-2001 vehicles as all cars made after this date must have type approved ones fitted. Unfortunately, universal fit parts can't ever be type approved so there is an ever shrinking market.

I suppose we only have about 10 years to wait until our Cavaliers are MOT exempt and we can all just fit de-cat pipes.
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