Turbo's are so "Unreliable" and "Bad on fuel" Thread , Squig

[TurboDan]

Well i keep reading how allot of people say and think that turbos are completely unreliable and really un economical so i thought i would make a thread and try and set the record straight.

First off most cars are only as unreliable as you make them, treat them right and they will treat you right.

Turbo's need servicing just like any other car does, normal parts will wear down like clutch, brakes etc... This is all just general wear and tear like any other car.

The 4x4 system is a pretty crap design but if it has a weak link that being the "Viscous Coupling" which has been known to break on some of them but again the transfer boxes need the fluids changing regulary just like enging oil does. But people tend to leave it out and so eventually breaks. I have owned 4 turbos now and all have had 4x4 working all the time and not on a switch, all have been launched plenty of times at santa pod and traffic light grand prix's and i have NEVER had one break on me yet!

The bodywork on the turbo/gsi shells do tend to rust more than the other models, but again, look after it, clean it, polish it etc.. and it will stay nice, which most people haven't done and so most are starting to need tlc, which infact most other cavs need ALLOT of TLC, just as much as most turbos infact so again i can't see why people slate turbos for that too.


And this ones for you squig. I went down to brighton last week from manchester, I reset my trip computer before i set off and on the way there i did 270 miles and used just under half a tank of fuel and my trip computer said on average i did 50.2 MPG - See pic:



And yes i did have real radio on lol.

The average went up from 44 to 45, to 47 then finally hit its max at 50.2mpg! This was with me driving at about 61-63mph ALL the way there in 6th gear. I worked it out and the real average was about 47.5mpg which i reckon is really good and i doubt many other cavs on here could beat it? Wasn't really slow as i was keeping up with most other traffic. Got there in a reasonable time.

And so who says they drink fuel?

They will drink fuel if you make it, i could watch the fuel gauge go down if i floored it everywhere. But thats your choice, they use as much fuel as you make it use.

And all together that week i drove 605 TROUBLE FREE Miles! Yes not even a hint of ecu light, nothing at all. And that was also driven with working 4x4 all the way there and back.


So thats my Turbo Rant over with i think. I hope i have cleared some myths up about turbos.

Feel free to comment and call me an idiot lol

[carlos_canter]

A car is as economical and reliable as the driver makes it.

Im guessing many turbo's have been hammered and not correctly maintained, so naturally there breaking down as with any other car, regardless make, model, age.

As its been proven in this case 50.2mpg and 600 trouble free miles are spot on and id bet if correctly maintained a turbo could be more reliable as modern "upto date" cars. People laugh when i tell them what i drive, but hey, its there car on the back of my truck and not mine!

I'm waffling, will shut up now.

[TurboDan]

"A car is as economical and reliable as the driver makes it."


That is exactly it. I use my turbo everyday and is kept outside in all weathers on the main road and my other turbos have all been the same and not one of them has ever let me down and has never failed to get me to where i was going.

[Ads]

Dans right, my turbo has only ever let me down once, and that was a leaking engine core plug, and if you drive sensibly,and not on full chat all the time, fuel consumption compares favourably with other cavs, Ads

[Squig]

I never said "turbos are completely unreliable and really un economical"...

If we're being brutally honest the economy is largely down to the F28 and that awesome 6th gear, hence mine does similar (it not a little better mpg), but... and this is the biggy, the turbo and other 4x4's based on the infamous transfer box due require a greater level of maintenance over a FWD drive-train. There are camber issues with lowering, issues over correct tyre pressures, etc., etc.. by issues I mean things that are supposed to be just so, otherwise additional wear is transmitted to the box. In my tiny little mind this indicates the 4x4 system is less reliable than the bogo FWD system, because more can potentially go wrong.

Of course the maintenance the owner puts in is going to have a massive impact on the overall reliability, at no point have I mean to imply otherwise...

so shuta ya face!

[TurboDan]

So can we now argue that v6's are much more reliable? And that other lowered cavs have major camber issues?

I think if we all checked our tyres inner edge then you would find that they are all just as bad lol!

[HAIRIBO]

My cav is low and no trouble with the tyres.

GSi and Turbo cars can adjust the camber with Eibach camber bolts at £19 a set.

So I wouldn'y be put off lowering a turbo.

The only thing that would put me off would be the condition of the car. Alot have been badly treated by boyracers.

I'd love a completely showroon standard cavalier turbo.

[Turbodave]

15 years later and still the debate rages!

My Cavalier turbo has been more reliable over 6 years / 70,000 miles than my Mk4 GSi turbo has been over 4 months and 14,000 miles plus it's a damn sight more economical too.

This more myths from those who haven't owned one?

[TurboDan]

Yep these are all random myths from people that haven't owned one and probably won't ever own one because they believe all these myths.

[Squig]

Love to own one... can't afford one, and have looked into the whole transfer box issue, could (before pc died) even show pics of where to brace the things... but it's no argument they can be reliable, just saying many specialist agree they aren't the best solution to a problem, quoted so people can actually read what I posted.

I never said "turbos are completely unreliable and really un economical"...

If we're being brutally honest the economy is largely down to the F28 and that awesome 6th gear, hence mine does similar (it not a little better mpg), but... and this is the biggy, the turbo and other 4x4's based on the infamous transfer box due require a greater level of maintenance over a FWD drive-train. There are camber issues with lowering, issues over correct tyre pressures, etc., etc.. by issues I mean things that are supposed to be just so, otherwise additional wear is transmitted to the box. In my tiny little mind this indicates the 4x4 system is less reliable than the bogo FWD system, because more can potentially go wrong.

Of course the maintenance the owner puts in is going to have a massive impact on the overall reliability, at no point have I mean to imply otherwise...

so shuta ya face!

I've even made the key points bold...

So can we now argue that v6's are much more reliable? And that other lowered cavs have major camber issues?

I think if we all checked our tyres inner edge then you would find that they are all just as bad lol!

You can try to argue whatever pleases you fella, my cav is, at the moment, a poor example of reliablity owing to my mistakes fitting the 6 speed and the problems I caused myself.

GSi and Turbo cars can adjust the camber with Eibach camber bolts at £19 a set.

That's the exact issue I was referring to, 4x4 cav's and cally's that have been lowered are widely reputed to suffer additional wear through the transfer box without said camber correction... of course you get inner tyre wear with lowered vehicles, par for the course that...

and for the entertainment of the rest...

incidentally fit an F28 to a v6 and get a better economy than a turbo. Plus no tetchy transfer box.

Mine does get better economy than Dan's... it's that simple. I'm afraid Dan may have been having a little tantrum cos I told him to spray his car black. and does anyone really want to argue the term "tetchy transfer box" and honestly try and convince me a transfer box can take as much abuse as a FWD setup?..

You are all discussing well looked after motors, I'm saying without that dedication a turbo would see TB issues... I may have rambled a bit.

[Ads]

Love to own one... can't afford one, and have looked into the whole transfer box issue, could (before pc died) even show pics of where to brace the things... but it's no argument they can be reliable, just saying many specialist agree they aren't the best solution to a problem, quoted so people can actually read what I posted.

I never said "turbos are completely unreliable and really un economical"...

If we're being brutally honest the economy is largely down to the F28 and that awesome 6th gear, hence mine does similar (it not a little better mpg), but... and this is the biggy, the turbo and other 4x4's based on the infamous transfer box due require a greater level of maintenance over a FWD drive-train. There are camber issues with lowering, issues over correct tyre pressures, etc., etc.. by issues I mean things that are supposed to be just so, otherwise additional wear is transmitted to the box. In my tiny little mind this indicates the 4x4 system is less reliable than the bogo FWD system, because more can potentially go wrong.

Of course the maintenance the owner puts in is going to have a massive impact on the overall reliability, at no point have I mean to imply otherwise...

so shuta ya face!

I've even made the key points bold...

So can we now argue that v6's are much more reliable? And that other lowered cavs have major camber issues?

I think if we all checked our tyres inner edge then you would find that they are all just as bad lol!

You can try to argue whatever pleases you fella, my cav is, at the moment, a poor example of reliablity owing to my mistakes fitting the 6 speed and the problems I caused myself.

GSi and Turbo cars can adjust the camber with Eibach camber bolts at £19 a set.

That's the exact issue I was referring to, 4x4 cav's and cally's that have been lowered are widely reputed to suffer additional wear through the transfer box without said camber correction... of course you get inner tyre wear with lowered vehicles, par for the course that...

and for the entertainment of the rest...

incidentally fit an F28 to a v6 and get a better economy than a turbo. Plus no tetchy transfer box.

Mine does get better economy than Dan's... it's that simple. I'm afraid Dan may have been having a little tantrum cos I told him to spray his car black. and does anyone really want to argue the term "tetchy transfer box" and honestly try and convince me a transfer box can take as much abuse as a FWD setup?..

You are all discussing well looked after motors, I'm saying without that dedication a turbo would see TB issues... I may have rambled a bit.

all you have to do is get a set of locking gears, lock the txb, and do away with the hydraulic system, and you have a reliable 4wd system, and my tubby is lowered 40 mm all round and i have no camber issues or uneven tyre wear, and as for miles pre gallon, as long as you dont go every where on full chat, and drive sensibly, the tubby compares well with other cavs. Ads

[Colorado]

To be perfectly honest my Turbo Hasnt been a bad car but they do not suffer neglect very well as opposed to a normal one. I have been in the unenviable position of having to play catch up with the maintenance to get it the good level it is now. Trouble is i am sick to death of the car now its done good project though it was. Enconomy wise the 6th gear is great on Motorways it turns into a lovely cruising car Fantastic to drive in those conditions. Round town it hasnt been so good but i would expect that. To be fair i havnt had a single 4x4 issue in three years using the standard transfer box. It is interesting stepping out of the 1.8 into the Turbo. You can actually feel the difference in the weight and the feel of the cars. Even with the 1.8 having all the suspension and tyre mods.As for rust on it there was some here and there but mostly under the bodykit and a pattern wing that was starting to look like a doily but nothing i wouldnt be surprised about. But to sum up the Turbo is an enthusiasts car no one else would be prepared to perserve it and look after it if they were not one so the good ones will be the ones left

[jacko-lah]

Okay Stop.

I want the right Cavalier (for me). I need to do 15 K a year (with class one business insurance). I'd like a turbo, but quite frankly I don't have the time to buy a dog and get it right, and I can't justify the difference in Purchase Price from V6 to Turbo. TBH an Early 130 8V or Late Ecotec would most likely fit my needs, but I want to change once and for all.

However : The Main Problem with changing my car is justifying the change to my long suffering, but sensible wife.

1) Her main objection to change is risk.
Why would you sell a perfectly road worthy 75 bhp astra that you hate, when there is nothing wrong with it?
2) Her second objection is age.
Despite the fact that she drives a 1992 Cavalier why would you spend £2500 on 15-16 year old car? How could she possibly impress her 57 reg Cooper S owning accountant friend (who I gave a mini 850 to in 1992 and Have yet to have it returned ) by saying her Managing Director Husband Bought a 15 year old car.
3) She would not believe either is going to be reliable.
I have (it has to be said) bought the odd DOG in the last 20 years. Polo 1.0 and CalibrE both spring to mind.
4) The final objection is always cost
I blame John Bloody Major for this ! Was it his fault that the imortgage nterest rate reached 15.5% in the early 90's. Being borderline skint makes it very hard not to want to save your money just in case. (Just in case you get made redundant and you want to claim benefits you need to NOT have saved, otherwise you'll be expected to spend that money before you get anymore)
So whilst I could 'find' £1000 and it be seen as a reasonable amount to pay for a car, finding £2500 would require that that car be newer, more eccomincal (ie slower), smaller, lower on insurance, and tax.
5) Lets face it the Name : Cavalier. Unless you are one of the converted it's just an old car that they no longer make that families and reps used to buy back in the 90's, invented before CD's were invented, invented before the internet. And the fast one's have been ragged, right ?

I digress. So how do I do this ? I'm in Derby 4 nights a week until October. I have a Driveway and 4hours every evening to play. That's about 60 hours a month. Say 350 hours.

I was planning on telling her I've bought a cavalier, a bit like hers, cheap to do up and sell on. To give me something to do. I could get away with it on a V6 but the Turbo. Nah.

[jacko-lah]

Alll you have to do is get a set of locking gears, lock the txb, and do away with the hydraulic system, and you have a reliable 4wd system, and my tubby is lowered 40 mm all round and i have no camber issues or uneven tyre wear, and as for miles pre gallon, as long as you dont go every where on full chat, and drive sensibly, the tubby compares well with other cavs. Ads

Under the 'RULES' of the Breakdown organisation I'm currently with, would having a locked transfer box be costly should I break down ?

Unless Vauxhall state that in all cases the Turbo must be put on a low loader ?

[jacko-lah]

Yep these are all random myths from people that haven't owned one and probably won't ever own one because they believe all these myths.

Dan, I've read your recent turbo thread and I'd be happy for you to do my maintenance should I ever buy a Cav Turbo. (Is your latest one for sale at a price I could afford ? )

I have no doubt that I would have all the problems you say are myths because I'm being followed by the bad luck fairy.

[HAIRIBO]

I had nothing but problems with my ecotec. Some people get good ones. But mine was a twonk of an engine.

If I was going to geta a reliable cavalier for high miles it would be a 1.8, 2.0 8v or the Izuzu TD.

[Gaz]

Under the 'RULES' of the Breakdown organisation I'm currently with, would having a locked transfer box be costly should I break down ?

Unless Vauxhall state that in all cases the Turbo must be put on a low loader ?

when i blew up my ecotec i just told them the cambelt has gone and they sent a low loader.

[Turbodave]

Under the 'RULES' of the Breakdown organisation I'm currently with, would having a locked transfer box be costly should I break down ?

Unless Vauxhall state that in all cases the Turbo must be put on a low loader ?

Standard box: AA believe it can be spec lifted or flat towed upto a maximum of 30mph for a distance no greater than 25 miles with fuse 19 removed, although said AA backed down rapidly when I asked if they're cover the repair cost should the transfer box fail within this distance. A flatbed arrived 35 minutes later.

Locked transfer box: Flat tow it as far as you want, but try and spec lift it and the resultant mass of twisted metal and blood will be an inconvenience. Best bet is to put them on a flat bed. Twisted metal and blood situation replicated when dozy MOT tester tries to do a brake test, with comical results as the car fires out the rollers at 30mph = funny, but not for him.

[FoxyCav]

My cav is low and no trouble with the tyres.

GSi and Turbo cars can adjust the camber with Eibach camber bolts at £19 a set.

So I wouldn'y be put off lowering a turbo.

The only thing that would put me off would be the condition of the car. Alot have been badly treated by boyracers.

I'd love a completely showroon standard cavalier turbo.

exactly what Dave said. Though i have noticed quite a lot have probs with the 4x4 system so id want that checked if i could ever afford one
i still dont think you can beat the look of a standard Cav Turbo

[Squig]

To be perfectly honest my Turbo Hasnt been a bad car but they do not suffer neglect very well as opposed to a normal one. I have been in the unenviable position of having to play catch up with the maintenance to get it the good level it is now. Trouble is i am sick to death of the car now its done good project though it was. Enconomy wise the 6th gear is great on Motorways it turns into a lovely cruising car Fantastic to drive in those conditions. Round town it hasnt been so good but i would expect that. To be fair i havnt had a single 4x4 issue in three years using the standard transfer box. It is interesting stepping out of the 1.8 into the Turbo. You can actually feel the difference in the weight and the feel of the cars. Even with the 1.8 having all the suspension and tyre mods.As for rust on it there was some here and there but mostly under the bodykit and a pattern wing that was starting to look like a doily but nothing i wouldnt be surprised about. But to sum up the Turbo is an enthusiasts car no one else would be prepared to perserve it and look after it if they were not one so the good ones will be the ones left

Been offline for a little while, but I'm glad at least one person is of similar opinion... oh yeah, link.

[TurboDan]

You would have to be mad to pay them prices.

A guy on CTOR called Mike Hayward, he makes a Set of locking rings for the transfer box and he sells them as a diy kit for £100! This locks the transfer box and also removes all the hydraulic rubbish and so far there hasn't been one failure with these rings in.

They are definately on my list of things to do.

[jacko-lah]

Blah Blah Blah

A guy on CTOR Blah blah .

I wouldn't know. Carl Davey 'banned' me because ?

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3766

http://www.cavalierturbo.com/forum/inde ... ntry135634



Why did Carl refuse to accept me as a member of the CTOR Forum ?

4 Reasons

1) Because I thought I might buy a V6 and not a Turbo
2) Because I critised the software.
3) Because I got impatient after waiting 2 full weeks and suggested he email me once I was a member.
4) Because he's got 'issues'.


Why did I thought I might buy a V6 and not a Turbo?
Because I needed to see the real life issues of owning a turbo before deciding one way or the other, and I thought that by saying I was not sure would get owners to tell it from their side

Why would I critised the software.
Because a link was broken.

Why did I get impatient after waiting 2 full weeks and suggested he email me once I was a member.
Because I have feck all to do in the evening and 24 hours is too long to wait.

Why has he got 'issues'?
No idea but 1 in 4 have mental illness issues at some time in their life, so who can tell ?


Can you feel my pain ?

[Squig]

Jack; not to be rude, but haven't you already vented?

Dan; expensive but good and gives another option... also includes a transfer box manual on there, and F28 resources.

[jacko-lah]

Jack; not to be rude, but haven't you already vented?

.

I have and I would edit but I can't.

[TurboDan]

Can i just say i'm not wanting an argument here i was just haveing a general rant

Squig - That site is great for info, i use it allot and have done for years.